How to tell if a motor is the 289 HiPo motor
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66P51GT
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66P51GT
New Member
K Engine Code on Door.
Block casting number (you have to remove the starter)
63-64 Block Casting Number: C3OE-B C4OE-B (5-Bolt Bellhousing)
65-68 Block Casting Number: C5AE-E - (5-Bolt Bellhousing)
Cylinder Head Casting Numbers
63 C3OE
64-67 C4OE-B C5OE-A C5AE-E
Solid Lifters (you can hear these when it is cold) tic-tic-tic-tic.
Distributor will be a dual-point and say Autolite not Motorcraft. It will also NOT have a vacuum advance.
Exhaust manifolds are larger and look like this:
Block casting number (you have to remove the starter)
63-64 Block Casting Number: C3OE-B C4OE-B (5-Bolt Bellhousing)
65-68 Block Casting Number: C5AE-E - (5-Bolt Bellhousing)
Cylinder Head Casting Numbers
63 C3OE
64-67 C4OE-B C5OE-A C5AE-E
Solid Lifters (you can hear these when it is cold) tic-tic-tic-tic.
Distributor will be a dual-point and say Autolite not Motorcraft. It will also NOT have a vacuum advance.
Exhaust manifolds are larger and look like this:
Attachments
66P51GT
New Member
Info scraped from http://lists.twistedpair.ca/pipermail/classic-mustangs/1998-March/009799.html
BLOCKS
HiPo blocks are said to be cast of higher nodular iron. What I've been
told that this means is that Ford closely examined the blocks that they
cast in their regular process, and selected the best ones for HiPos
(perhaps some sort of visual/other test/check?). HiPo blocks can not
be positively identified by their casting numbers. At least some are
identified by an orange paint daub (don't remember the location).
BOTTOM END
- CRANKS not forged steel, but again of a higher nodular iron. As above,
this means that Ford selected the best of the ones they produced to be
included in HiPos blocks. Brinell tested for hardness. Additional
counter weight on the end
- HARMONIC BALANCER is larger (I believe almost 1" thick)
- MAIN BEARING CAPS were 2-bolt, but larger than std. 289. No distinguish-
ing part #s. Can be transfered to other blocks, but requires align boring
(expensive and probably not worth it).
- RODS were heavier duty; very similar to those used in the Boss 302 years
later. Larger bolts, 3/8" I believe (as opposed to 5/16" for std.)
- PISTONS were cast flat tops, yielding higher compression.
HEADS
- 289HP "cast in" heads between the lifter bores
- SCREW IN STUDS mounting rocker arms
- CAST IN SPRING SEATS
- ROCKERS: never switched to rail-type like std. 289; uses "close tolerance"
push rod holes.
- MECHANICAL LIFTERS, wilder camshaft (something like 310-degrees duration
and .45x" lift - intake & exhaust). Stiffer springs, etc.
- VALVES are the same size as other 289s (1.67" intakes B4 early 65; 1.78"
intakes there on).
INTAKE
- SAME CAST IRON INTAKE MANIFOLD as A-code 289.
- CARB: Autolite 4100, with 1.12" venturis, flowing ~600cfm.
Different from A-code 289 (1.08" venturis, flowing ~480cfm)
- OPEN ELEMENT 14" air cleaner, chromed top
- MANUAL CHOKE operated from inside the car
EXHAUST
- Unique to 289HiPo freer flowing cast iron exhaust manifolds
Very few had plumbing for heat riser to carb
- Used different H-pipe
- All had dual exhaust (65-66 style, Shelby style, or 67 style)
DISTRIBUTOR
- Dual Points - No vacuum advance
ALTERNATOR
- Larger pulley (~4"), higher rating
TRANSMISSION
- Manual only until '66 model year
SUSPENSION
- Springs, shocks had increased rates. Most (if not all) have a 9" rear
APPEARANCE
- Chrome plated steel or "Cobra" aluminum finned valve covers.
- Chrome Air Cleaner w/289 High Performance decal
- 65-66 289 High Performance Fender badges
BLOCKS
HiPo blocks are said to be cast of higher nodular iron. What I've been
told that this means is that Ford closely examined the blocks that they
cast in their regular process, and selected the best ones for HiPos
(perhaps some sort of visual/other test/check?). HiPo blocks can not
be positively identified by their casting numbers. At least some are
identified by an orange paint daub (don't remember the location).
BOTTOM END
- CRANKS not forged steel, but again of a higher nodular iron. As above,
this means that Ford selected the best of the ones they produced to be
included in HiPos blocks. Brinell tested for hardness. Additional
counter weight on the end
- HARMONIC BALANCER is larger (I believe almost 1" thick)
- MAIN BEARING CAPS were 2-bolt, but larger than std. 289. No distinguish-
ing part #s. Can be transfered to other blocks, but requires align boring
(expensive and probably not worth it).
- RODS were heavier duty; very similar to those used in the Boss 302 years
later. Larger bolts, 3/8" I believe (as opposed to 5/16" for std.)
- PISTONS were cast flat tops, yielding higher compression.
HEADS
- 289HP "cast in" heads between the lifter bores
- SCREW IN STUDS mounting rocker arms
- CAST IN SPRING SEATS
- ROCKERS: never switched to rail-type like std. 289; uses "close tolerance"
push rod holes.
- MECHANICAL LIFTERS, wilder camshaft (something like 310-degrees duration
and .45x" lift - intake & exhaust). Stiffer springs, etc.
- VALVES are the same size as other 289s (1.67" intakes B4 early 65; 1.78"
intakes there on).
INTAKE
- SAME CAST IRON INTAKE MANIFOLD as A-code 289.
- CARB: Autolite 4100, with 1.12" venturis, flowing ~600cfm.
Different from A-code 289 (1.08" venturis, flowing ~480cfm)
- OPEN ELEMENT 14" air cleaner, chromed top
- MANUAL CHOKE operated from inside the car
EXHAUST
- Unique to 289HiPo freer flowing cast iron exhaust manifolds
Very few had plumbing for heat riser to carb
- Used different H-pipe
- All had dual exhaust (65-66 style, Shelby style, or 67 style)
DISTRIBUTOR
- Dual Points - No vacuum advance
ALTERNATOR
- Larger pulley (~4"), higher rating
TRANSMISSION
- Manual only until '66 model year
SUSPENSION
- Springs, shocks had increased rates. Most (if not all) have a 9" rear
APPEARANCE
- Chrome plated steel or "Cobra" aluminum finned valve covers.
- Chrome Air Cleaner w/289 High Performance decal
- 65-66 289 High Performance Fender badges
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
jbsteven said:
This might be a dumb question, but how do you know that it should have a HiPo engine? Just because it is a GT doesn't mean it should.
Is the 5th character in your VIN a 'K'?
If so, the above posts about cover it. The quickest way to get an early indication is to look for the fatty harmonic damper. Other external parts (exhaust manifolds, distributor, etc.) could have been changed out without affecting the function of the engine.
Conversely, if someone blew the original K engine in the past and replaced it with a regular 289 or 302 or something, odds are that they would have reused the original exhaust manifolds, so don't go by something like this alone.
Checking the casting numbers is your safest bet, and look for your car's VIN stamped into the block apron, although this wasn't always there from the factory (but most of the time).
This issue makes a huge difference in the value of your car. It's downright pricey to build a correct HiPo engine these days if you don't have a core to start with.
66p5
exactly what I was looking for.
one other questions for you guys:
Can it be a GT and NOT have the HiPo engine? anything from the VIN that would tell me it was originally a GT?
here is the car in question
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&item=2492050881&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT
exactly what I was looking for.
one other questions for you guys:
Can it be a GT and NOT have the HiPo engine? anything from the VIN that would tell me it was originally a GT?
here is the car in question
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&item=2492050881&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT
the VIN on the Ebay ad confirms it's not a real HiPo. Where the "A" is in the fifth position would be a "K" if it really were a HiPo. If I'm not mistaken, the A codes were a 289 w/4V carb, and made about 225 HP. Nothing noteworthy.
It probably has a "289 Cubic Inches. High Performance" air cleaner cover on it like my 67 does (289 w/2V), and he thinks that makes it a HiPo.
I don't know how important it is to you, but maybe you can get out of the sale contract because it's advertised as a HiPo 289 when it really isn't.
It probably has a "289 Cubic Inches. High Performance" air cleaner cover on it like my 67 does (289 w/2V), and he thinks that makes it a HiPo.
I don't know how important it is to you, but maybe you can get out of the sale contract because it's advertised as a HiPo 289 when it really isn't.
& I don't think there is anything in the VIN which would confirm if it's an original GT. I believe that there are clues on the body, like foglight wire holes, but I'm not an authority. It was very easy to clone a GT with add-on parts purchased from and installed at the dealership in the 60s, which would make it a "real" GT, but not an assembly-line GT.
snail
not real important for the price I paid. seems to be a fairly decent car. I will see it on Thursday and make a final decision.
I did just ordered a 302 with 380 HP for one of my other 66's. Now we have to figure out what we are going to do with the tranny.
not real important for the price I paid. seems to be a fairly decent car. I will see it on Thursday and make a final decision.
I did just ordered a 302 with 380 HP for one of my other 66's. Now we have to figure out what we are going to do with the tranny.
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
There is nothing in the VIN or on the door tag that would confirm if it's a real GT. You should ask the guy how he knows, just for kicks.
One of the ways to tell if it's real or not:
Lay down underneath the back of the car. Right by the last exhaust hangers on the rear frame rails there is a hole facing downwards. Stick your finger in the hole and feel around towards where the exhaust hanger bolts through the frame rail. The factory GTs had reinforcement inside the frame rails at these locations so the rail wouldn't crush when the exhaust hangers were bolted on. A dealer- or otherwise-installed GT package won't have this reinforcement.
It seems like a nice car, depending on what the undercarriage looks like! It reminds me of my first car -- a '65 coupe with a vinyl top. I made it into a GT, so that's another non-factory GT out there I suppose. The car's in Germany now though!
One of the ways to tell if it's real or not:
Lay down underneath the back of the car. Right by the last exhaust hangers on the rear frame rails there is a hole facing downwards. Stick your finger in the hole and feel around towards where the exhaust hanger bolts through the frame rail. The factory GTs had reinforcement inside the frame rails at these locations so the rail wouldn't crush when the exhaust hangers were bolted on. A dealer- or otherwise-installed GT package won't have this reinforcement.
It seems like a nice car, depending on what the undercarriage looks like! It reminds me of my first car -- a '65 coupe with a vinyl top. I made it into a GT, so that's another non-factory GT out there I suppose. The car's in Germany now though!
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
reenmachine
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
server issue repost
Kept telling me "server too busy" -- guess the post was actually going through.
Kept telling me "server too busy" -- guess the post was actually going through.
1320stang
Founding Member
I don't think I've ever seen a GT that had a vinyl roof. I especially like the fuzzy pic of the data plate. 
The wheels aren't original, they didn't have chrome rims until '67, the rims were black and had trim rings in '65-'66. The data plate will reveal the truth about the vinyl top, the pony interior, and the rear gear might let you know about the "full rear racing suspension" which I suspect are some under-riders.
That said, I don't think you did too bad, heck if all that he said is true, you got a heck of a deal. If its all bogus, you may have paid $1000-$1500 over what you could have gotten it for, but to recreate what's there would cost more than $12k.
The wheels aren't original, they didn't have chrome rims until '67, the rims were black and had trim rings in '65-'66. The data plate will reveal the truth about the vinyl top, the pony interior, and the rear gear might let you know about the "full rear racing suspension" which I suspect are some under-riders.
That said, I don't think you did too bad, heck if all that he said is true, you got a heck of a deal. If its all bogus, you may have paid $1000-$1500 over what you could have gotten it for, but to recreate what's there would cost more than $12k.
1320stang
Founding Member
Ah, thanks Josh, I knew the '66 had black rims and there was a difference either before or after and I thought it was after. I should have also clarified, just the rim we're talking about, not the center.
But they're still not original anyways.
But they're still not original anyways.
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