Hydroboost Major Problems, Ehhh??

[Invictus]

Alrighty... this post may end up kind of long but I need help ya'll i'm having major problems... Alright, I had to disconnect my hydroboost unit because i'm a moron basically and it was 5 bolts, I didn't take the entire assembly off I just unbolted it so that I could turn it just a bit to make clearance for the new BBK valve covers. (Their website told me most people had to do this so I didn't see a problem with it...) Anyways, everything's back on and I bolted the hydroboost back up and torqued everything down... Welll........ My brakes are completely locked, and my power steering is all weird.

I'll un torque the hydroboost and hear a popping noise (my brakes dis engaging) so now i can push my car. I'll torque everything back down nice and tight, fill the power steering fluid back up and everything's good to go.. I can push my car and everything. However, the very FIRST time I press the brake pedal in, it just locks them permanetely and they will Not disengage... I can still pump my brake pedal though with no problem at all.

As for power steering (while the car is idling) it will ONLY work if I press my brake in at the same time.... I've bled the hydroboost there's no more foaming in the power steering resovoir or anything everything is great except something is just not right inside the hydroboost i'm guessing.

This would not be a result of not bleeding the brakes would it? I have not done that.. but then again I have not lost one drop of brake fluid. I don't mind doing it but that's not going to help i doubt, it wouldn't affet the power steering??!

What the hell is the matter here any ideas!!!

this is where I actually seperated the hydroboost unit, i know it's a ****ty pic.. you can see the driverside cam in the backround to get your bearings strait... I did not disconenct it from the firewall, there are 5 bolts holding it together and you can see where the unit is seperated. power steering fluid pours out of it when i loosen it, but i've re connected it and bled the hydroboost 4 times now with the same unearthly results!!
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/versailees/hb.jpg

 

[LaserRed01GT]

You likely still have air in the system. The Hydro boost system is supposed to be self bleeding, but sometimes it doesn't.

Hydro-Boost Bleeding

1. NOTE: The Hydro-Boost power brake booster is generally self-bleeding, and the following procedure will normally bleed the air from the power brake booster. Normal operation of the vehicle will further remove any additional trapped air. Fill the power steering oil reservoir with MERCON (R) Multi-Purpose ATE XT-2-QDX or MERCON (R) equivalent.

2. Remove the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) fuse to prevent the engine from starting.

3. Crank the engine for several seconds.

4. Check the fluid level in the power steering oil reservoir and add if necessary. Install the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) fuse.

5. Start the engine.

6. With the engine running, turn the steering wheel from stop to stop twice. Turn the engine off.

7. Depress the brake pedal several times to discharge the accumulator.

8. Repeat Steps 5 and 6.

9. If foaming occurs, stop the engine and allow the foam to dissipate.

10. Repeat Steps 5 and 6 as required, until all the air is removed from the system (when the foaming stops).

That is the common procedure to manually bleed the HB system. If that doesn't help, I will try to help you some more.

 

[Invictus]

Yeah, I saw that writeup in the oasis workshop manual however my problem I think is a lot more complicated after further looking into the last couple of hours, in fact i'm going to need a new hydrboost unit. I took the brake booster off and there were peices everywhere! I think it was in a bind and then I torqued down on it damaging the internals. Some of the metal seems to be chipped off, and I found a random little silver peice with a black gasket on it wedged up under the little cylinder inside the unit, it was just torn up some how?! I'm pretty sure I can install it ( a direct replacement ) but I need some help... I can take the unit completely out and remove the master brake cylinder and resovoir. But there is a shaft that is connected to my firewall i'm not sure if it comes out of not... will I need a new one of these? I'm a complete newb with all of this and i'm not sure how to tell what's damaged and what isn't and what all I need to replace if I replace the brake booster. This link: http://replacement.autopartswarehou...&model=MUST-GT-005&part=Brake Booster&dp=true

the 2nd item down is what I need i'm pretty sure, i'm just not sure if I also need the shaft that is connected to my firewall... Ahhh! ive been working on this for days and i'm almost postive it's ruined!

 

[LaserRed01GT]

You probably damaged the little snap ring that holds the accumulator to the booster. If the compressed nitrogen in the acculmulator escaped, that could cause your brakes to lock as soon as you press the brake pedal.

That's the booster push rod. It has a retaining pin on the end of the brake pedal that you have to remove then you can just slide the push rod out. Most of the new boosters will come with a new push rod.

If you really got all that metal into the system, it would probably be a good idea to drain as fluid as possible. Drain the power steering resevoir as well. It would also be a good idea to take a small telescoping magnet and fish it around everywhere you can get it.

When you install the new booster follow the manual bleeding procedure again until there is no foam.

 

[Invictus]

Looks like I can get a complete Entire brake booster / master cylinder assebembly and everything used on ebay for cheap... Do you that would be worth it and make for a much eaiser installation? What do you think about this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYDR...013QQitemZ230080971399QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

The only part i'm not familiar with is that rubber boot behind the firewall plate and that metal loop? Is this easy to take out and are there steps to do this? This will probably be the way to go for me it will be much eaiser and cheaper for me I think.

And thanks again for all of your help Laser you're muchly appreciated I think i'll get more involved with this site I love it! :SNSign:

Also, just curious you have pretty much the EXACT setup that I have as far as mods go, except I have a 125 ZEX kit instead of NX, I haven't had mine on the dyno yet because of this problem but I was just curious as to what your numbers are? The only thing different between our cars is I have granatelli rear suspension and coil packs and stock MAF.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

I'm sure you already have the procedure in your Oasis manual, but here it is just in case:

With the engine off, depress the brake pedal several times to discharge the accumulator.

Disconnect the battery ground cable.

Disconnect the fluid level sensor connector.

Disconnect the brake tubes.

Disconnect the power steering return line hose.

Disconnect the power steering pressure lines.

Remove the self-locking pin.

Remove the stoplight switch and the brake booster push rod from the brake pedal pin(stud).

Remove the power brake booster nuts.

As I'm sure you've already noticed, you have to get to 3 of the booster stud nuts, you have to get to them from the inside.

I posted a picture below showing you the brake pedal assembly and brake(stop)-light switch. You can clearly see the self-locking yellow pin. A flathead screwdriver will spread the pin and get it out.

Make sure you install new teflon seals on the high pressure power steering fittings. Also make sure to put that nylon washer back on the brake pedal stud(pin).

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[LaserRed01GT]

Also, just curious you have pretty much the EXACT setup that I have as far as mods go, except I have a 125 ZEX kit instead of NX, I haven't had mine on the dyno yet because of this problem but I was just curious as to what your numbers are? The only thing different between our cars is I have granatelli rear suspension and coil packs and stock MAF.

My car made 280 RWHP/299 RWTQ N/A, and 423 RWHP/479 RWTQ on the 125 wet shot on a Mustang dyno. A lot of time was spent with the tune and it runs very strong for a bolt on car.

 

[Invictus]

NICE! If I achieve 400 at the wheels that would be incredible and it's my goal. I also have COMP stage 1 (262) cams in I failed to mention. Well that's awesome and thanks for your help with the hydroboost unit i'll post up if it gives me any trouble.

Frank

 

[Texstang9682]

Hey Invictus When you get your booster fixed can you post some pics of the moter with the BBK valve covers? Iv'e been thinking about getting some but I'm not sure that I want to throw down 250+ for them. Know any company selling anything similar for a lower price? And ya the guys here are pretty helpful! By far the best 4.6 forum I've been to.

 

[Invictus]

View attachment 406607

alright got the new hydro boost unit in.. however i noticed that this black cylinder ((see image above)) is really loose... it doesn't seem to want to screw in or anything like that is there something wrong wit hit? the broken one that I took out is extremly tight. has it snapped or should i be worried about something before installing this? if not how to i get it tightned up

 

[mransr]

This link: http://replacement.autopartswarehou...&model=MUST-GT-005&part=Brake Booster&dp=true

the 2nd item down is what I need i'm pretty sure, i'm just not sure if I also need the shaft that is connected to my firewall... Ahhh! ive been working on this for days and i'm almost postive it's ruined!

nothing to add about your problem, but I'd be REAL careful dealing with autopartswarehouse.com...they billed my CC for parts they didn't have in stock, tried to get me to accept a lower quality parts instead, and after more than 4 months still haven't refunded my money

 

[Invictus]

same here, they billed me for BBK aftermakret valve covers which they ddint have in stock. then sent me an email telling them to CALL. so i called.. they tell me they are out of stock and tell me to get on their website and look up a certain partnumber.. which comes out to be some ROUSH valve cover plates (that stick to the top of the factory plastic covers... i was like NO JUST REFUND MY MONEY, do you not know anything about what you're selling?!?! 3 weeks later, got the refund.

Ordered them from RPMoutlet and they were at my door the following afternoon, differnce in service much?

 

[Invictus]

still need help with the above problem!! anyone?!

 

[LaserRed01GT]

alright got the new hydro boost unit in.. however i noticed that this black cylinder ((see image above)) is really loose... it doesn't seem to want to screw in or anything like that is there something wrong wit hit? the broken one that I took out is extremly tight. has it snapped or should i be worried about something before installing this? if not how to i get it tightned up

That's the accumulator, and it contains compressed nitrogen. It should not be loose. It's not uncommon for the snap ring to come loose that holds the accumulator to the booster housing. The brakes will still function without the accumulator, but the acumulator stores enough pressure to provide backup braking pressure in case hydraulic pressure is lost.

I'd send it back and get another one.

 

[Invictus]

is there anyway to tighten this thing back up in hopes of saving another 2 weeks of down time? could i possibly salvage the parts inside of it to fix my broken one?

 

[LaserRed01GT]

is there anyway to tighten this thing back up in hopes of saving another 2 weeks of down time? could i possibly salvage the parts inside of it to fix my broken one?

Try to get the acuumulator as snug as possible. Make sure the snap ring is holding the accumulator as tight as possible. A simple way to test the Hydro-Boost system is to pump the brakes five or six times with the engine off to discharge the accumulator. Then press down hard on the brake pedal and then start the engine. Like a vacuum booster, you should feel the pedal go down, then rise when the engine starts.

The leakdown of the accumulator can be checked by pumping the brakes several times while the engine is running, then shutting it off. Let the car sit for about an hour, then try the brakes without starting the engine. You should get two or three soft brake applications before it takes more effort to push the pedal.

 

[Invictus]

I haven't even put the hydroboost system in my car yet, this is the new one that just came in, I noticed that the accumulator was loose and freely spins around, instead of being tight like it should be. The ruined unit is out of my car as well but the accumulator cylinder is still tight and snug on the booster. I'm just wondering what needs to be done or if anything can be done at all to get this thing screwd on snug.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

I haven't even put the hydroboost system in my car yet, this is the new one that just came in, I noticed that the accumulator was loose and freely spins around, instead of being tight like it should be. The ruined unit is out of my car as well but the accumulator cylinder is still tight and snug on the booster. I'm just wondering what needs to be done or if anything can be done at all to get this thing screwd on snug.

Before you install the unit, I would call the manufacturer and ask them if the accumulator should be "loose" before it has been "pumped" up the first time after being installed.

 

[Invictus]

alright i just got the new one in and it was a breeze to put on and get all the lines hooked up etc... however still havin slight trouble with the brakes!! Arghh..

alright the power steering works fine no problem at all here!

the brakes however are not wanting to engage! the pedal seems to have just a tad bit of pressure but I am still able to depress it all the way down to the floor. i've bled them and a lot of air came out particularly the right front side. could the brakes depressing all the way down be a symptom that i still have air in the lines? should i re bleed them? any advice here appreciated and again thank you for all of your help so far laser!!

 

[LaserRed01GT]

alright i just got the new one in and it was a breeze to put on and get all the lines hooked up etc... however still havin slight trouble with the brakes!! Arghh..

alright the power steering works fine no problem at all here!

the brakes however are not wanting to engage! the pedal seems to have just a tad bit of pressure but I am still able to depress it all the way down to the floor. i've bled them and a lot of air came out particularly the right front side. could the brakes depressing all the way down be a symptom that i still have air in the lines? should i re bleed them? any advice here appreciated and again thank you for all of your help so far laser!!

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder?