I need understanding on the twEECer and quarterhorse tunes.

foxbodymike87 · Feb 23, 2012

what exactly do they do and how do you decide which one to go with? Say your doing a h/c/i on a 302 with trick flow top end kit and 36 pound injectors. What tune would be good for that??
Ive tried searching but nothing really helps me out.

2000xp8 · Feb 23, 2012

I know some will say otherwise, but that is not going to be a good investment with the mods on your car.

Either way, tunes are individual to the car, every car is different. To truly make the most out of a tune (which is very little to begin with on a fox), you need a dyno or a wideband datalogging setup, then you need to know how to read that information.

If that setup you list is actually yours, your money would be best spent on 24lb injectors and a good mass air meter. Should run near perfect that way. Too much injector is a PITA to get to run right.

BlownFiveLiter · Feb 23, 2012

You'd probably be better with some 30's instead of 36's if you can find them. The TwEECer vs. QH dilemma is really one of asking yourself, "do I want to spend more for the product and receive free software, or less for the product, but have to purchase the software separately for an additional $100ish dollars?"

The QH is cheaper, but then you need to buy Binary Editor separately. The learning curve is probably just as bad with either one and if you buy the TwEECer, you could still use the Binary Editor software, which is generally recommended over the program it comes with.

tannerc91gt · Feb 24, 2012

Its coming across like you're calling QH and tweecer tunes when they are in fact tuning software to create your own tunes. Sorry if that's not the case. But with the setup you're talking about, either will work just fine but if you don't have a decent amount of experience or are more interested in just getting a tune and getting it over with, I wouldn't recommend either one.

93Cobra2771 · Feb 24, 2012

2000xp8 said:
I know some will say otherwise, but that is not going to be a good investment with the mods on your car.

Either way, tunes are individual to the car, every car is different. To truly make the most out of a tune (which is very little to begin with on a fox), you need a dyno or a wideband datalogging setup, then you need to know how to read that information.

If that setup you list is actually yours, your money would be best spent on 24lb injectors and a good mass air meter. Should run near perfect that way. Too much injector is a PITA to get to run right.

x2

foxbodymike87 · Feb 24, 2012

that set up was hypothetical. i've just read stuff on people using different tunes on different combos, so i just threw one out there.

93Cobra2771 · Feb 24, 2012

Unless you have

1. A lot of patience
2. A lot of attention to detail
3. The ability and the urge to read lots of technical articles/forums on tuning
4. A unique combo/drivability issue
5. Lots of patience
6. Did I mention a lot of patience?
7. Computer savvy.
8. And finally, lots of patience

I would steer clear of both, take it somewhere to a competent tuner with dyno/wideband access, and have it done then. Although having the power in your hands to tune it yourself is awesome, you can VERY easily do something and literally destroy your engine.

You might luck out and find a tune that someone has uploaded for a combo that is close to yours. But then, you have to trust that the person knew what they were doing when they built that tune. That's a trust I wouldn't take without going through each parameter and verifying myself. And if you have enough competence to verify a tune, you have enough to build your own - making verifying someone else's tune kind of a waste of time.

2000xp8 · Feb 24, 2012

I've yet to see anyone here come out anywhere near some of the "untuned" setups i've seen. Consider this, a box stock afr headed setup that made 340rwhp (not mine). No computer tuning. Car ran faster at the track with the new NA setup than it did with a vortech (stock bottom end).
IMO, you can either spend hundreds of dollars on pointless tuning equipment, or you can put that money into the hardware and make above average numbers.
Let's assume that either a wideband/programmer or dyno tune and chip are going to set you back $750, could be more could be less, but i consider that a fair number,

Now, instead put that money into the best heads/cam/intake. I will 100% guarantee, that the better h/c/i setup comes out wayyyyyyy ahead in the power department than the tuned vehicle.
If the setup is put together correctly, there shouldn't really be any notable drivability issues.

The one i mentionied was a custom cam, 70mm tb, rpmII intake, afr head setup with 30's and a pro M meter. Made a real 340rwhp on the dyno.

NIKwoaC · Feb 24, 2012

Really, like already said, with 24 lb injectors and a "calibrated" MAF, there is no reason the stock tune couldn't handle that. The only times that a Fox NEEDS a tune is in high rev combos, combos with very large injectors, forced induction, combos with odd or retrofitted EFI parts, and typically strokers. Mild HCI cars can USUALLY get away by cheating with a calibrated MAF.

93Cobra2771 · Feb 24, 2012

One other reason to tune one - if you like to change your combo often, such as injector size, etc, you can keep the same MAF and simply adjust for the injectors in the EEC.

Also, if you are a drivability freak, and love tweaking for the utmost in drivability, then your own tuner might be a good option.

In my case, I got a tuner to work out drivability issues. And it worked out pretty well for me. Heck, I didn't even mess with WOT tables on either target a/f or timing...

NIKwoaC · Feb 24, 2012

93Cobra2771 said:
One other reason to tune one - if you like to change your combo often, such as injector size, etc, you can keep the same MAF and simply adjust for the injectors in the EEC.

Also, if you are a drivability freak, and love tweaking for the utmost in drivability, then your own tuner might be a good option.

In my case, I got a tuner to work out drivability issues. And it worked out pretty well for me. Heck, I didn't even mess with WOT tables on either target a/f or timing...

+1 I think the drivability thing is good reason for a tune. A calibrated MAF will usually ballpark your WOT A/F pretty well, but I've found that the further you are from stock, stuff like startup, low RPM throttle tip-in, and part throttle cruise start to become more and more affected. Of course, that stuff is all subjective, so it's hard to argue it, really.

foxbodymike87 · Feb 24, 2012

so if you had a higher horsepower car with bucking issues at low rpm those tunes can fix that?

f8tlfiveo · Feb 24, 2012

93Cobra2771 said:
One other reason to tune one - if you like to change your combo often, such as injector size, etc, you can keep the same MAF and simply adjust for the injectors in the EEC.

Also, if you are a drivability freak, and love tweaking for the utmost in drivability, then your own tuner might be a good option.

In my case, I got a tuner to work out drivability issues. And it worked out pretty well for me. Heck, I didn't even mess with WOT tables on either target a/f or timing...

I have a qh and a wideband setup, it wasn't that expensive.. Might have been about 650$ for everything including innovate lc-1 wideband and binary editor, EEC analyzer.. They are good for alot of things like cobra said... Drivability is a major thing for me... Take it to a shop and pay 500$ for a chip and get a wot tune... That's great and all if it is a drag car. Drive it on the street and most likely if the pedal isn't on the floor your not going to be happy. Yes it is alot of work to figure out all of the stuff to make a good tune. Go to eectuning.org and look around.. There are a bunch of people on there that are willing to help answer questions. Some of them will tune your car via datalogs over the Internet. That is what I did.. Worked out well for me.. Stock tune 238rwhp,260rwtq.. With tune 260rwhp,287rwtq... Same day same dyno.. Ran consecutively.. So anyone that says it doesnt make a diff never tried it..and my combo is pretty weak compared to a aluminum head combo... Gt40p's and exploder intake..

f8tlfiveo · Feb 24, 2012

foxbodymike87 said:
so if you had a higher horsepower car with bucking issues at low rpm those tunes can fix that?

yes

vristang · Feb 24, 2012

foxbodymike87 said:
what exactly do they do and how do you decide which one to go with? Say your doing a h/c/i on a 302 with trick flow top end kit and 36 pound injectors. What tune would be good for that??
Ive tried searching but nothing really helps me out.

Tweecer will come with the hardware/chip and tune selector switch, as well as the editing software and the datalogging software. The tweecer is more expensive, but the software really is a joke. There are known bugs that were never fixed, and when you are starting out those bugs will add to the confusion.
The QuarterHorse will come with the chip. You will then need to find the editing software of your choice. There are a couple free software packages available, but they aren't as commonly used as Binary Editor. This software really is impressive and has continued to progress over the years.

With either option (tweecer vs QH) you will want a Wideband O2 for tuning Open Loop/WOT. They can be found for about $200.

I'm not getting into another pissing match regarding the value of a tune, especially with guys who have never tuned something themselves...
BUT, my opinion is that anytime the cam is changed, there are drivability gains to be made with Injector Timing. I've seen this on my own cars.

Good Luck
jason

2000xp8 · Feb 24, 2012

f8tlfiveo said:
I have a qh and a wideband setup, it wasn't that expensive.. Might have been about 650$ for everything including innovate lc-1 wideband and binary editor, EEC analyzer.. They are good for alot of things like cobra said... Drivability is a major thing for me... Take it to a shop and pay 500$ for a chip and get a wot tune... That's great and all if it is a drag car. Drive it on the street and most likely if the pedal isn't on the floor your not going to be happy. Yes it is alot of work to figure out all of the stuff to make a good tune. Go to eectuning.org and look around.. There are a bunch of people on there that are willing to help answer questions. Some of them will tune your car via datalogs over the Internet. That is what I did.. Worked out well for me.. Stock tune 238rwhp,260rwtq.. With tune 260rwhp,287rwtq... Same day same dyno.. Ran consecutively.. So anyone that says it doesnt make a diff never tried it..and my combo is pretty weak compared to a aluminum head combo... Gt40p's and exploder intake..

Every gt40p headed combo makes somewhere between 250 and 265rwhp setup. So you can say the tune added power, then again you can say something was wrong to begin with. A stock engine with full exhaust, pulleys, smog delete, timing and k&n can make 225-230rwhp, so 238 as a starting number was off some how.
Imagine where you would be if instead of spending that money on a tuner, you purchased twisted wedges or afrs.

On a different note, I won't go much further no need to get in a pissing match with people that don't own cars that actually run and haven't in pretty much forever.

I prefer to help others spend their money on things that actually help, not just novelties.

f8tlfiveo · Feb 24, 2012

2000xp8 said:
Every gt40p headed combo makes somewhere between 250 and 265rwhp setup. So you can say the tune added power, then again you can say something was wrong to begin with. A stock engine with full exhaust, pulleys, smog delete, timing and k&n can make 225-230rwhp, so 238 as a starting number was off some how.
Imagine where you would be if instead of spending that money on a tuner, you purchased twisted wedges or afrs.

On a different note, I won't go much further no need to get in a pissing match with people that don't own cars that actually run and haven't in pretty much forever.

I prefer to help others spend their money on things that actually help, not just novelties.

your opinion... Your allowed to have it... I was just stating that a tune makes a difference.. No not as much as putting a decent set of heads on.. But in my opinion worth the money just for the drivability factor..

2000xp8 · Feb 24, 2012

f8tlfiveo said:
your opinion... Your allowed to have it... I was just stating that a tune makes a difference.. No not as much as putting a decent set of heads on.. But in my opinion worth the money just for the drivability factor..

fiveo, hope you didn't think i was insulting you, not what i was trying to do.
Just trying to get the point across that is an order of operations where the money should be spent, and i'm of the belief that if you want to do tuning as a hobby, sure go ahead, but it's not necessary and the best hardware is much more important that optional software when it comes to foxes. My info also comes from people that do tunes for living and pretty much don't do it on foxes because the stock computer just can't be beat when staying under the rev limiter. It's not theory, it's tested factual.

I need understanding on the twEECer and quarterhorse tunes.

foxbodymike87

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