I wonder if old antifreeze....

65fastbackresto · Oct 21, 2007

I just redid motor and tranny, and it never occured to me to flush the old antifreeze outta the heater core. When I start using the heater this winter, this old green antifreeze is gonna mix with my new pink antifreeze, and I heard somewhere not to mix them together.

Anyone know if this mite be an issue? There cant be much antifreeze in the heater core can there?

rbohm · Oct 21, 2007

first, why are you using the pink antifreeze rather than the green?

second yes there will be a problem.

66HertzClone · Oct 21, 2007

Don't tell us you are trying to use Dex cool anti-freeze. If you haven't done a google seach and read about the problems with this stuff you really need to do some research.

That said, the only thing that could happen if you mixed the green ethelene glycol coolant and the pink stuff is a weird color. No sludge or caustic mix will occur.

Seriously, if you think you're doing yourself a favor using the Dex Cool you need to do more research, it is a and can cause problems.

CraigMBA · Oct 21, 2007

The antifreezes are 100% compatable with each other. Particularly in small ammounts.

There is no reason to use dexcool, although it's problems are widely overstated if you bother to check your coolant level every time you change your oil and make sure it's topped off. You need to use an overflow tank too, but you already were right?

65fastbackresto · Oct 22, 2007

My engine builder

recommended the pink cause of the aluminum heads and intake. And no I dont have an overflow tank, I never thought about it. Is the tank to keep it from spilling and like a dog lapping it up or something?

This motor has got like 15 miles on it so far so its really not even finished tweaking yet, this is one of those things that got overlooked.

Never occured to me to google antifreeze, I kinda figured it would either work or not. Just exactly what kind of problems is it causing?

Tim65GT · Oct 22, 2007

Never occured to me to google antifreeze, I kinda figured it would either work or not. Just exactly what kind of problems is it causing?

I didn't know dexcool had an issue either. I wouldn't use it because it cost more.

a quick search found this:

By Joe Benton
ConsumerAffairs.Com
August 29, 2006
Ten years after General Motors began using Dex-Cool as an antifreeze in most of its cars and light trucks, GM car and truck owners continue to complain that the coolant corrodes and clogs radiators and radiator caps, erodes water pumps, rots radiator hoses, causes chronic overheating and engine damage while leading to leaky engine gaskets.

I read some of the issues, and it seems to be an issue if the coolant gets low and air gets in the system. So yea, a overflow reservoir is a good is a good idea, no matter what type of coolant you use.

66HertzClone · Oct 22, 2007

You would be hard pressed to find any modern vehicle that does not have aluminum components. Here is an example of what Dex Cool could do, replace the coolant in your 4.6 Ford with Dex Cool and you will find the head gaskets will fail.

Here is the first result when I Googled,

number one

number two

Here is a photo of the sludge that can develop,

This is what it looks like in the radiator,

Here is what ends up in the overflow tank,
View attachment 354301

Like I said, get rid of it, the coolant used in late model Chrysler and M-Benz is far superior.

65fastbackresto · Oct 22, 2007

Wow

Well thats good enough for me. Thanks guys yall have saved my tail once again from one of my stupid mistakes.

CraigMBA · Oct 22, 2007

65fastbackresto said:
recommended the pink cause of the aluminum heads and intake. And no I dont have an overflow tank, I never thought about it. Is the tank to keep it from spilling and like a dog lapping it up or something?

No. It's an expansion tank so when the car heats and cools it keeps the radiator full of coolant. Without the tank, the car will heat and puke out the part it displaces as it expands. As it cools, it will suck coolant out of the expansion tank and 'refill' the radiator.

The dexcool problems are from letting the expansion tank run dry.

66HertzClone · Oct 23, 2007

CraigMBA said:
No. It's an expansion tank so when the car heats and cools it keeps the radiator full of coolant. Without the tank, the car will heat and puke out the part it displaces as it expands. As it cools, it will suck coolant out of the expansion tank and 'refill' the radiator.

The dexcool problems are from letting the expansion tank run dry.

Almost correct, the Dex Cool problem occurs in the radiator, in the air pocket that forms just beneath the rad cap. In our vintage cars with top and bottom tanks there is no way to avoid having an air pocket. Those that are using side tanks rads may be able to get away with it. The big question is, is it really worth the risk? There are other coolants that offer superb protection for aluminum and will not under any circumstances sludge up like the Dex Cool does.

CraigMBA · Oct 23, 2007

66HertzClone said:
Almost correct, the Dex Cool problem occurs in the radiator, in the air pocket that forms just beneath the rad cap. In our vintage cars with top and bottom tanks there is no way to avoid having an air pocket. Those that are using side tanks rads may be able to get away with it. The big question is, is it really worth the risk? There are other coolants that offer superb protection for aluminum and will not under any circumstances sludge up like the Dex Cool does.

I call on a Chevrolet agency and see sludged up systems all the time. The overflow is always dry, the system is always low. If you have air in the system, you'll have problems. You should run an overflow tank anyway.

The ones that come in topped off are almost never sluged up.

There's nothing wrong with green antifreeze and there is no problem with antifreeze compatiablity.

ForceFed70 · Oct 23, 2007

In most cases, there is coolant flowing through the heater core even when the heater isn't in use. If the fluids are going to mix, it's probably already happened long ago.

65ShelbyClone · Oct 23, 2007

First and foremost, why the hell should a coolant create sludge and/or corrosion in the presence of air?

The green coolant works great at protecting aluminum, has been for decades, and it doesn't turn into crust.

CraigMBA · Oct 23, 2007

65ShelbyClone said:
First and foremost, why the hell should a coolant create sludge and/or corrosion in the presence of air?

The green coolant works great at protecting aluminum, has been for decades, and it doesn't turn into crust.

Dexcool has high silicas content, intended for lubricity of water pump bearings. Problem is, it's reactive in the presence of aluminum and oxygen. When combined, the silicas fall out of solution and attach themselves to the metal as "sludge".

Another problem is that the coolant becomes more basic as time goes on, attacking gaskets and seals.

If you don't run the car low on coolant, there's no problem.

65fastbackresto · Oct 23, 2007

I`m leaning toward green now

Aint nobody said nothing bad about it.

CraigMBA · Oct 23, 2007

Those pictures of the sludge are from a car that ran low on dexcool.

Steel123 · Nov 6, 2007

In most cases, there is coolant flowing through the heater core even when the heater isn't in use. If the fluids are going to mix, it's probably already happened long ago. Steel Pipe

BTJustice · Dec 8, 2007

CraigMBA said:
Dexcool has high silicas content, intended for lubricity of water pump bearings. Problem is, it's reactive in the presence of aluminum and oxygen. When combined, the silicas fall out of solution and attach themselves to the metal as "sludge".

Another problem is that the coolant becomes more basic as time goes on, attacking gaskets and seals.

If you don't run the car low on coolant, there's no problem.

I think you mean silicates which Dex-Cool and Dex-Cool clones such as Prestone All Makes All Models and Wal-Mart SuperTech have none of.

One of Dex-Cool's ingredients is 2-EHA which eats certain plastics. Since GM likes plastic gaskets it is really silly they would purposely use a coolant that contains a plasticizer yet they do. And now they have to pay for this stupidity...

http://www.modexcool.com/

You are correct about the air. When a Dex-Cool cooling system runs low on coolant, rust forms and mixes with the coolant. The Dex-Cool reacts to this combination of air and rust which creates mud...

http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/dex-cool.htm

Click on the pictures on the right-side of this webpage...

http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/dex-cool_pics.htm

For you guys running older cars, you might consider using Zerex G-05...

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=10
http://www.valvoline.com/products/zerexg05.pdf

Have a look at this article especially paragraphs 8, 12, and 13 on page 1 and paragraph 2 on page 2 ...

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/2334/top-it-up-with-green-or-orange-which-antifreeze.html

Also read this article especially paragraph 11 on page 1...

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/2264/dr-turcotte-writes-a-few-coolant-prescriptions.html

BTJustice · Dec 8, 2007

65fastbackresto said:
Aint nobody said nothing bad about it.

It is good. In fact Zerex has a green coolant that is low on silicates and lasts 5 years/100,000 miles...

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=8
http://www.valvoline.com/products/zerexoriginal.pdf

However, most new autos use HOAT (hybrid organic acid technology... G-05... THANKFULLY) and some use OAT (organic acid technology... Dex-Cool... DAMNIT). I wonder what GM is gonna do now that Dex-Cool has been proven to be crap and they are going to have to pay for it...

http://www.modexcool.com/

Since the demand is getting less and less for actual green coolant, I doubt actual green coolant will be made since the demand will be virtually non-existent. Stores usually try to avoid donating shelf space to low demand products. That will probably be years from now, but it will happen. In fact it is happening. Major stores such as Wal-Mart no longer carry it. In my area, you can only get it from Farm & Home Supply stores. NAPA 'might' have it.

I say actual green because Prestone All Makes All Models and Wal-Mart SuperTech coolant are also somewhat green in color but they aren't IAT coolants (inorganic additive technology) like the Zerex green is. They are Dex-Cool clones. Look at the ingredients on them for proof.

You can also use Zerex G-05 as mentioned in my post above. It is going to be around for YEARS to come since all new Fords and Chryslers now use it.

Mercedes-Benz, John Deere, and several other manufacturers have used G-05 in their products for many years. It is dyed different colors (yellow/gold for Ford, red for Chrysler/MOPAR, green for John Deere) but it is all G-05...

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...gent&category=A/C and Engine Cooling Products
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/1821/coolant4cc.jpg (MOPAR coolant that looks just like Dex-Cool but is G-05.)
http://www.hitachiconstruction.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/parts/coolants.html
http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/coolants/coolants_competitive_comparisons.html
http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/coolants/coolants_coolgard.html
http://www.alloemautoparts.com/1966/Mercedesparts/300SEL-Accessory-CoolantAntifreeze.asp

I plan on using John Deere coolant next weekend in a 2003 S-10 and a 2004 Blazer which both have Dex-Cool in them. I later plan on using it in my 1998 Mustang GT. John Deere Green G-05 is a lot easier to see than Ford Gold G-05.

65fastbackresto · Dec 8, 2007

Wow, thats a lot of info

Thanks Mr Justice,

I been off here awhile but I`ll be back after Christmas, we doing a postal contract thats killing all my time right now, but yall be good.

I wonder if old antifreeze....

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