if you had a couple of thousand to spend on performance mods what would it be??

[QDRHRSE]

This is turning into a great thread! You make a lot of good points however you are still overlooking a couple of things. A blower does run hotter but under normal driving conditions a blown car with 7-10 degrees of initial timing will run cooler than an NA car with 15-18 degrees of timing and will detonate less. My own car is the best example I could use. I have a pretty stout motor with a small blower and I run a black magic fan which is rated for less power than my car has, and also, I run a stock radiator, I live in the desert, I have all of my emissions equipment (eventhough that is temporary- its on there). The car never goes above 180-185 unless the blower is making a lot of boost. I have seen the temp gauge in the car go up to the halfway mark at the track only. Not one of my other cars that was NA could do that. I've had a a lot of Mustangs......

A base kit with an Anderson Power Pipe will make 7-8lbs of boost and a car with exhaust on it will most definitely see 80rwhp. Tuning a small blower is easy. It only becomes difficult when you start to make a lot of boost. Re-gapping the plugs and pulling back the timing are the only things you would need to do. You might have to change the diaphram in the FMU but usually the one in the kit is perfect (they usually ask you about your setup when you buy the blower)

I wish I could remember which magazine it was, but one of them, within the last year did a dyno test based on the same thing that we are "discussing" and the blower car made a good deal more power. I know people on StangNet have referenced it before....I would bet that you read it.

A blower does respond to bigger injectors,MAF...etc. etc., however, a base kit is designed to work with a stock motor with stock everything. I think the only strong recommendation that Vortech makes is installation of a higher volume [bigger] fuel pump.

H/C/I will not make significant hp increases without a larger tb or mass air meter. This point alone is undeniable. The blower creates its own atmosphere and pushes the additional air in by force so a tb is definitely not as important.

I will close with a short story. In 94 or 95 we bought a 91LX. With exhaust only it went 15.2x's on radials. We then bought a paxton SN-93 supercharger, bolted it on, went to the track the same night and ran 13.5x's, once again, on radials. We didn't know anything about EFI back then either. You can't do that NA with motor parts only for 2k but I bet there are bunch of guys here on StangNet who have similar stories about superchargers.

 

[5spd GT]

This is turning into a great thread! You make a lot of good points however you are still overlooking a couple of things. A blower does run hotter but under normal driving conditions a blown car with 7-10 degrees of initial timing will run cooler than an NA car with 15-18 degrees of timing and will detonate less. My own car is the best example I could use. I have a pretty stout motor with a small blower and I run a black magic fan which is rated for less power than my car has, and also, I run a stock radiator, I live in the desert, I have all of my emissions equipment (eventhough that is temporary- its on there). The car never goes above 180-185 unless the blower is making a lot of boost. I have seen the temp gauge in the car go up to the halfway mark at the track only. Not one of my other cars that was NA could do that. I've had a a lot of Mustangs......

A blower car with 7-10* of timing per your example is under the influence that it is not tuned for maximum performance or driveability. Just like if you ran a h/c/i car at that amount of degrees it would not be best for performance or driveability. Many N/A cars are happy at 14* (happily skipped by you). Not all N/A 5.0L's for example have to be 15-18* nor do a blown car have to be as low as 7-10*.

Now we all know the temperature guages are inaccurate to the naked eye. I know after adding my h/c/i with a griffin radiator/180* t-stat it ran 2-3 bars cooler then my stock setup. Of course many factors. I also have a Black Magic Fan. My car sits at 1/4-1/3 of the bar on my temp guage. Before it would sit at halfway or a little more. My car doesn't heat up under hard acceleration. It stays the same. Can't say the same for boost.

With boost you have to keep in my possible blown headgaskets which once again means you need to tear it down to the heads. If you added h/c/i you could have fresh stronger head gaskets to take the boost later on. When you do a h/c/i swap you also "rebuild" the topend of your engine. Great time to check out other problems.

Anyways, judging temperature from car to car is not an accurate way to see what runs cooler and what doesn't. Cars and conditions are all different.

A base kit with an Anderson Power Pipe will make 7-8lbs of boost and a car with exhaust on it will most definitely see 80rwhp. Tuning a small blower is easy. It only becomes difficult when you start to make a lot of boost. Re-gapping the plugs and pulling back the timing are the only things you would need to do. You might have to change the diaphram in the FMU but usually the one in the kit is perfect (they usually ask you about your setup when you buy the blower)

You didn't add exhaust. You also didn't add the powerpipe. Two poweradders that you left out. That can add up to $1,000 dollars. A dyno tune is much more accurate and more expensive. You have to pay to play. You can't leave that out. For a daily driven car or for piece of mind I would want a tune. What about you if given the option? Changing the diaphram can be more cost as well.

I wish I could remember which magazine it was, but one of them, within the last year did a dyno test based on the same thing that we are "discussing" and the blower car made a good deal more power. I know people on StangNet have referenced it before....I would bet that you read it.

I wish you could too. I would like to know more about the details of the comparison because I can't judge anything by that. Was it a s/c trim, s trim, t or ys trim...etc...etc. You see where I'm going with that. What was the h/c/i setup. Exactly.

A blower does respond to bigger injectors,MAF...etc. etc., however, a base kit is designed to work with a stock motor with stock everything. I think the only strong recommendation that Vortech makes is installation of a higher volume [bigger] fuel pump.

So what is better one that can work with 19lb injectors but is close to maxing them out or one with 24lbers. If you were given "free money"...which would you choose. 19's or 24's. I would assume you would answer 24's. Then why is that? You tell me

The h/c/i kits are made to work stock everything but they have recommendations like the gears/bigger maf/tb/etc. Guess what is recommended for even small blowers. The same It is all recommendations to help with power and effeiciency.

H/C/I will not make significant hp increases without a larger tb or mass air meter. This point alone is undeniable. The blower creates its own atmosphere and pushes the additional air in by force so a tb is definitely not as important.

The same point can be given to the supercharger. A supercharger forces air into the engine. It is forcing it thru smaller holes like the TB or MAF. If it didn't have to work so hard you could pull more rwhp. Guess what does that...a TB and MAF for example. Same with the vacuum pull thru a TB or bigger MAF on a h/c/i N/A car. Same theory applies. Points of restriction effect both the N/A car and the blown car.

I will close with a short story. In 94 or 95 we bought a 91LX. With exhaust only it went 15.2x's on radials. We then bought a paxton SN-93 supercharger, bolted it on, went to the track the same night and ran 13.5x's, once again, on radials. We didn't know anything about EFI back then either. You can't do that NA with motor parts only for 2k but I bet there are bunch of guys here on StangNet who have similar stories about superchargers.

I find it hard to believe you cut off 1.7 seconds with JUST a supercharger. That is the equivalent of a steady 170hp. Not going to happen with a sn93 charger. A few variables had to be changed. The driver got better or changed or track prep was drastically improved.

So you installed a supercharger the same day as your N/A run and ran the same day/night. How long is your track open. I find that hard to believe. Seems a bit stretched...but who an I too deny. I haven't ever seen 1.7 seconds from JUST a blower change. Ever, ever, ever...and never will see one as far as I can tell. On a stock 5.0L????? Hmm...

Good Luck

 

[txstang84]

I haven't ever seen 1.7 seconds from JUST a blower change. Ever, ever, ever...and never will see one as far as I can tell. On a stock 5.0L????? Hmm...

Good Luck

...i've seen it...only one exception-tires...

bone stock 92LX notch (not even bumped timing, exhaust, gears, or cai) 14.40's w/8.5" slicks launching @3k, shifting at 5700

next weekend, same hot, muggy 90* Texas summer weather conditions, baseline vortech kit (think 1994, so 6-7psi), no tune (no dyno within range), stock injectors, stock EVERYTHING, with the slicks, again launching @3k...12.67

it can be done

 

[iwashmycar]

If your car can stomach it, get a blower.

 

[QDRHRSE]

I was misunderstood. We put the blower on in the morning and went to the track the same afternoon. I didn't make a pass, put the blower on and run again. Sorry for the confusion.

You don't need 170 hp to increase your et 1.7 seconds....not with a 15+ second car. I see how you came up with that using the rule of thumb of 10hp per .1 of ET but that doesn't always work. Not to mention that the car made so much more top end that it went 14mph faster.

You said something that was really funny. Basically you said- ya, well, a blower does force air in but through smaller holes [with the stock MAFF and TB]. Well I hate to tell you that its still forcing and not sucking. Also the person who started the thread already has exhaust. You can get a small blower and a Power pipe for 2g's...barely. I gotta jet but I'll come back and we can play some more later........

 

[5spd GT]

I was misunderstood. We put the blower on in the morning and went to the track the same afternoon. I didn't make a pass, put the blower on and run again. Sorry for the confusion.

I figured...no problem.

You don't need 170 hp to increase your et 1.7 seconds....not with a 15+ second car. I see how you came up with that using the rule of thumb of 10hp per .1 of ET but that doesn't always work. Not to mention that the car made so much more top end that it went 14mph faster.

Yeah I used that general formula. I'm still having a hard time believing with stock gears you went 14mph faster (140hp?) when you installed the supercharger that morning I guess ya'll weren't scared to flog on it without a tune. Speaking of without a tune...I can't see how you gained that much and it wasn't truely tuned so to speak I haven't heard of a 14mph gain from just a supercharger swap on a base 5.0L with the model supercharger given.

So be honest...was it the same driver. How did you not have traction problems (which would hurt E.T. severely????) with the blower power?

You said something that was really funny. Basically you said- ya, well, a blower does force air in but through smaller holes [with the stock MAFF and TB]. Well I hate to tell you that its still forcing and not sucking. Also the person who started the thread already has exhaust. You can get a small blower and a Power pipe for 2g's...barely. I gotta jet but I'll come back and we can play some more later........

I'm glad I could provide some comic relief. Yeah but blowing thru a straw (though forced) is harder to do that blowing thru a 20oz coke (hole on the other) bottle right? Same principle applies. It is also harder to suck thru a straw than a size bigger right? Vaccum applies there. It is good to have vaccum as well...

I'm always willing to play...I never quit playing