ignition problems

royster5point0

New Member
Nov 10, 2005
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i am having trouble restarting my car or keeping it running after it gets hot. i have a 6al box, stock coil (wich is still good) and a stock distributor. its all been working well together for the past two or three years. now in the past week i have been through two tfi's (which both had a lifetime warranty) any ideas of what could be shorting this out. the wiring is all just like it was intsalled. no bad wires and all the grounds are good. the other problem that people have told me is the pip but that wouldnt make the tfi go bad. would it? what about a bad dizzy? any ideas would help:shrug:
 
did you know ford had a recall on the tfi (in california only) the main reason for malfunction was due to heat. and the "thick film" used didnt deter the heat like it was supposed to. well on mine i made sure to add plenty of the film. the only thing i can think of is the distributor getting too hot. what would/could cuase this?
 
Bypass the MSD (May Suddenly Die) box and see if it gets better.

If that does not fix it start looking at the grounds and power wiring to the MSD.

Grounds are important to any electrical system, and especially to computers.

1.) The main power ground is from engine block to battery: it is the power ground for the starter & alternator.

2.) The secondary power ground is between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It is often missing or loose. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges. Any car that has a 3G alternator needs a 4 gauge ground wire running from the block to the chassis ground where the battery pigtail ground connects.

3.) The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.

4.) All the sensors have a common separate ground. This includes the TPS, ACT, EGE, BAP, & VSS

5.) The O2 sensor heaters have their own ground (HEGO ground) coming from the computer. This is different and separate from the O2 sensor ground. It is in the fuel injector wiring harness and comes out under the throttle body. It gets connected to a manifold or head bolt.

6.) The TFI module has 2 grounds: one for the foil shield around the wires and another for the module itself.

7.) The computer takes the shield ground for the TFI module and runs it from pin 20 to the chassis near the computer.

8.) The computer's main power ground (the one that comes from the battery ground wire) uses pins 40 & 60 for all the things it controls internally.

See http://www.fluke.com/application_notes/automotive/circuit.asp?AGID=1&SID=103#volt for help troubleshooting voltage drops across grounds
 
thanks jrichker, ill go back and check all my grounds. thinking it was the pip i just got a reman. dist. and switched it out. didnt work. i now think it might be my 6al box. you say bypass the msd and honestly im not sure how to do that. i see you live in east orlando, are you a mech. or just a smart guy with a mustang. i live on Rouse and Lakeunderhill. wich is only 10 min away. if your willing to make a few bucks maybe we can get together???????
 
That is some sound advice from JR. If you have the instructions for the box, do the opposite of what they say. the most important part is getting the box out of series with the coil (put the stock coil harness back on the coil).

When it wont start, do you know if you have spark and injector pulsing? That is a very good way to narrow the issue down, as you might find that you are missing neither, and that it is a burp in the tune (reminds me of hot start issues on carbed stuff).

Good luck.
 
jrichker said:
6.) The TFI module has 2 grounds: one for the foil shield around the wires and another for the module itself.

7.) The computer takes the shield ground for the TFI module and runs it from pin 20 to the chassis near the computer.


Just curious where is the other ground go to from the tfi module? Is that aluminum foil looking wrap that the dizzy wires come through at the computer the shield ground right? I see a bare metal ground wire coming from that shield and it grounds on the car frame but where is the other end? the tfi or just stops in the middle of the harness and is connected to that aluminun foil stuff? If this is one ground where is the other? Thanks
 
87stangdiddle said:
Just curious where is the other ground go to from the tfi module? Is that aluminum foil looking wrap that the dizzy wires come through at the computer the shield ground right? I see a bare metal ground wire coming from that shield and it grounds on the car frame but where is the other end? the tfi or just stops in the middle of the harness and is connected to that aluminun foil stuff? If this is one ground where is the other? Thanks
The other TFI ground wire grounds internally inside the computer.

The shield ground is the bare wire that grounds to the frame. The foil shield
protects the TFI wiring from the high voltage field produced by the spark
plug wires and keeps the TFI signal out of the radio. It is only connected to
ground at the computer end.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-90 wiring

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds.

88-91eecPinout.gif
 

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i guess i need to be a little patient next time. i cant ask a question and expect an answer 10 min later. at the end of the day you guys had some great detailed info. thanks again, i hope there is a way i can help you guys in the future.