Intakes, Carbs, Fuel Pumps, and Ignition

[Route666]

Hi everyone, I hate asking questions because I don't have a mustang yet, but I'm getting there, saving saving. Still dreamin', as StangDreamin' says.

The combo I want to build is a 331 roller motor, for a beasty little street motor. That's about all that matters for this question I suppose.

I was browsing through websites for information, and one VERY good bit came up, that I hadn't thought of. You see, I want to put a custom fuel injection setup on it along with the rest of the build. The website I found said not to use a new FI setup on a freshly built block before run-in, because by the time you have it tuned good enough to drive, you'll have gone past the break-in stage, and probably washed the cylinders running rich, and ruined rings, that sort of thing.

This dissapointed me a little, BUT then I thought hang on, firstly it'll be cheaper to initially run a carb and a good ignition system and so is more feasible, and give me a chance to build it up again later, and break it in properly.

So what carb, manifold, fuel pump (if there's any better quality mechanical pumps, or an electric I can run with a carb), and ignition stuff is good?

I've heard a lot about the MSD 6-AL, so I checked that out, and saw a distributor I could get from them to go with it. What's a good coil? MSD I'm guessing...

I'm not too well versed on the fuel system either, except that I might not be able to run a mechanical fuel pump with some of the accessories I will put on the motor, not sure yet. What's a good mechanical pump? Electric?

I like the look of the air-gap manifold, would that be a good one to get? Any better? I want to be able to drive it, and would rather good torque over max power and rpms.

I like the look and reports I hear about demon carbs too, so what cfm would be best? Any other carb anyone would reccomend?

Thanks, hope you guys help me out.

 

[skywalker]

Hi everyone, I hate asking questions because I don't have a mustang yet, but I'm getting there, saving saving. Still dreamin', as StangDreamin' says.

The combo I want to build is a 331 roller motor, for a beasty little street motor. That's about all that matters for this question I suppose.

I was browsing through websites for information, and one VERY good bit came up, that I hadn't thought of. You see, I want to put a custom fuel injection setup on it along with the rest of the build. The website I found said not to use a new FI setup on a freshly built block before run-in, because by the time you have it tuned good enough to drive, you'll have gone past the break-in stage, and probably washed the cylinders running rich, and ruined rings, that sort of thing.

This dissapointed me a little, BUT then I thought hang on, firstly it'll be cheaper to initially run a carb and a good ignition system and so is more feasible, and give me a chance to build it up again later, and break it in properly.

So what carb, manifold, fuel pump (if there's any better quality mechanical pumps, or an electric I can run with a carb), and ignition stuff is good?

I've heard a lot about the MSD 6-AL, so I checked that out, and saw a distributor I could get from them to go with it. What's a good coil? MSD I'm guessing...

I'm not too well versed on the fuel system either, except that I might not be able to run a mechanical fuel pump with some of the accessories I will put on the motor, not sure yet. What's a good mechanical pump? Electric?

I like the look of the air-gap manifold, would that be a good one to get? Any better? I want to be able to drive it, and would rather good torque over max power and rpms.

I like the look and reports I hear about demon carbs too, so what cfm would be best? Any other carb anyone would reccomend?

Thanks, hope you guys help me out.

Here's my 2 cents:
If you're going to get a stroker motor via the 302 block, get a 347. But in reality, why not get a 351W stroker?

I have the MSD 6A (lacks the rev limiter, but I don't really need it IMO) with the MSD billet distrubutor (dual mechanical advance, no vacuum advance like the pro billet) and I use the MSD blaster 2 coil. MSD very much recommends using the blaster 2 or blaster 3 coil with the 6 series ignitions. Technically stock will work but it would be stupid when the blaster 2 costs about $30-$40 (US dollars) and the stock one will be far to weak for the 6A to be useful in it's job.

I would get the whole set up and just never worry about installing pertronix (which I had before) or the points.

As for fuel, while EFI is definitely neat, a well tuned carb should make basically the same power and gas mileage. The recent articles I've read showed that the same motor will make 1 extra hp and the same gas mileage with EFI.

HOWEVER, that's from a professional driver driving in optimum conditions, so your mileage WILL vary.

Several companies (holley and edelbrock come to mind) make high flow mechanical fuel pumps for SBFs. My advice? If you're worried about fuel flow and also wouldn't mind freeing up 1 or 2 hp, go electric.

I replaced my fuel pump for the 2nd time in 6 months ($15 autozone one) this past weekend. The stock fuel pump is indeed unreliable. Get an aftermarket high flow pump, or get an electric one. Autozone sold a $30 universal electric that I thought baout getting but I didn't feel like dealing with the install at that particular moment, but when this one breaks as I am sure it will, then I'm going electric. My Honda CRX and my Acura Integra had them. Never a problem until (as with all imports) I had to change one. No big deal except for the whole thing of it being in the most impossible place on the car outside of it actually being in the gas tank! So rule of thumb there is, put it where you can easily change it, cause it too can fail. (Though, I would bet that most people on here will attest to better reliability with the electric fuel pumps.)

I like weiand intakes. They're fairly inexpesive, look good and flow well. My car had a performer 289 on it when I got it. I installed a weiand stealth and could feel the difference. Definitely a winner. But, you've got to look at the whole package when choosing your intake. There are different types for difference purposes so look at what your motor's needs are and choose based on that. Don't be afraid to call manufacturers, especially guys like comp cams, my experience is sketchy but a lot of times you're get a guy who knows his stuff.

As for demon carbs...I run an edelbrock carb. It is a great carb. But lord would I love a demon. They are the GLOCK of carbuerators IMO. The cfm will depend on your intake, heads, cam displacement. For a 331 I'd guesstimate 600-650. Really hard to say though and I am for sure no expert.


One last thing. GOOD CALL ON THE ROLLER MOTOR!!!!! Whenever it is that I get to building a 351W, it will be a roller. Higher ramp speeds, more radical cam profiles. Very nice.

 

[DukeGnarley]

you will need an electric pump for a roller motor, because there is no place to mount a mechanical. make sure you get a pressure regulator for the fuel line too.

 

[Great68]

you will need an electric pump for a roller motor, because there is no place to mount a mechanical. make sure you get a pressure regulator for the fuel line too.

Not if you swap the fuel pump eccentric, and use the old style timing cover.

 

[Route666]

Nice response thanks Skywalker! Now for more Q's.

Here's my 2 cents:
If you're going to get a stroker motor via the 302 block, get a 347. But in reality, why not get a 351W stroker?

Well, and you're gunna laugh, but I'm eccentric so , I want to get a Dart aluminium block, I know, 'round 5k for a block, but my angle is ultra light, and nothing un-necessary. (until I get air-con ) So I'll be able to use manual steering very easily with such a light motor, saving more weight and accessory loss.

As for the 347, I'm very leery of the excessiveness of angles and such that I've heard. Maybe once I actually get to pay for things, there'll be a lot more positive responses about the 347, but I'm still a bit worried about all the oil leak issues. The rod angles worry me too, because I know more angle means more force on the piston sideways, which means more wear. Also, since I'm thinking of manual brakes, I want to get a pretty radical cam, not TOO radical, but something that will still be pretty good off idle with 4.11s and a TKO. Also, I thought the 331 would be better for the attitude I want the motor to have, less of a thumping big block, more of a screaming demon. Still 5.4L isn't THAT small of a motor. Also, we're lucky enough to have 98 octane fuel, so hopefully I'll run 11:1 CR, which will help balance out some of the lumpier cam down low and the extra cubes I would have had with 347.

I have the MSD 6A (lacks the rev limiter, but I don't really need it IMO) with the MSD billet distrubutor (dual mechanical advance, no vacuum advance like the pro billet) and I use the MSD blaster 2 coil. MSD very much recommends using the blaster 2 or blaster 3 coil with the 6 series ignitions. Technically stock will work but it would be stupid when the blaster 2 costs about $30-$40 (US dollars) and the stock one will be far to weak for the 6A to be useful in it's job.

I would get the whole set up and just never worry about installing pertronix (which I had before) or the points.

Sounds like the way to go!

As for fuel, while EFI is definitely neat, a well tuned carb should make basically the same power and gas mileage. The recent articles I've read showed that the same motor will make 1 extra hp and the same gas mileage with EFI.

LOL! Well I might try it for something to do when I get bored 20 years down the track, or something like that.

HOWEVER, that's from a professional driver driving in optimum conditions, so your mileage WILL vary.

Several companies (holley and edelbrock come to mind) make high flow mechanical fuel pumps for SBFs. My advice? If you're worried about fuel flow and also wouldn't mind freeing up 1 or 2 hp, go electric.

I replaced my fuel pump for the 2nd time in 6 months ($15 autozone one) this past weekend. The stock fuel pump is indeed unreliable. Get an aftermarket high flow pump, or get an electric one. Autozone sold a $30 universal electric that I thought baout getting but I didn't feel like dealing with the install at that particular moment, but when this one breaks as I am sure it will, then I'm going electric. My Honda CRX and my Acura Integra had them. Never a problem until (as with all imports) I had to change one. No big deal except for the whole thing of it being in the most impossible place on the car outside of it actually being in the gas tank! So rule of thumb there is, put it where you can easily change it, cause it too can fail. (Though, I would bet that most people on here will attest to better reliability with the electric fuel pumps.)

Extra efficiency, I didn't think of that with the fuel pump. Combined with the fact that I probably won't be able to use a mechanical pump, I'll go electric. (long story, lots of combinations of March pulleys and other stuff that I wanted I worked out that I needed a 79-93 (something to 93 anyway) water pump and timing cover for it all to work.)

What worries me about electric pumps is the ones I've looked at are for EFI, and they're like 40+ PSI ratings. What's a good one for a carb? (6-8 PSI aren't they?) I'll use a returning fuel system too, with a regulator. Can I just use a low PSI EFI pump and tune the regulator so it bypasses a lot to get the right fuel pressure?

Oh and while we're talking about this, would it atomise the fuel a little better with say 10PSI or so? Or would that be bad for the carb?

I like weiand intakes. They're fairly inexpesive, look good and flow well. My car had a performer 289 on it when I got it. I installed a weiand stealth and could feel the difference. Definitely a winner. But, you've got to look at the whole package when choosing your intake. There are different types for difference purposes so look at what your motor's needs are and choose based on that. Don't be afraid to call manufacturers, especially guys like comp cams, my experience is sketchy but a lot of times you're get a guy who knows his stuff.

I'll have to look at intakes a bit more, I only looked a little bit.

As for demon carbs...I run an edelbrock carb. It is a great carb. But lord would I love a demon. They are the GLOCK of carbuerators IMO. The cfm will depend on your intake, heads, cam displacement. For a 331 I'd guesstimate 600-650. Really hard to say though and I am for sure no expert.

Eww a Glock, shudder. I'm more of a 1911 and Beretta fan. Had you have said the Demon was like a Desert Eagle, I would have been happier I understand a Glock fan's passion though, so point taken!

(On an unrelated note I finally got my handgun license woohoo!)

I think 700 might be good then, a lot of carb threads I've read have had D.HEARNE and some others saying for more CFM than is calculated.

One last thing. GOOD CALL ON THE ROLLER MOTOR!!!!! Whenever it is that I get to building a 351W, it will be a roller. Higher ramp speeds, more radical cam profiles. Very nice.

Ta! I know, better valve operation (more open/close less opening, open, closing, closed), and less friction, what's not to like!

Thanks again those who have replied so far, and keep the good info coming! I want opinions and experiences and advice.

EDIT: For help with manifold selection, I'll probably use AFR 185 heads, I asked about this a while ago and someone said 185s won't be enough for 500hp, but I no longer want that much 450 will do, if I get more, great, but response is important to, so smaller ports are better for air speed at low rpm. Also, I read an article about a 408 with 185s making 700hp or something, so I'm sure they'll do.