Internally or externally balanced

65fastbackresto · Jun 28, 2007

I`m trying to make proper harmonic balancer and flexplate selection. Motor is 1978 302.

Enigine builder doesn`t know if the motor is internally balanced or externally, and I dont know either.

Help?

Rusty67 · Jun 28, 2007

Externally. Unless somone modified the crank. I have never heard of a factory small block Ford motor that was internally ballanced. Several of the big block motors are. You can have machine work done to the crank and buy the correct parts to make a motor with a zero imballance but you still need a dampener.

Rusty67 · Jun 28, 2007

And if your engine builder doesn't know that I'd take your engine to another builder.

Hack · Jun 28, 2007

Rusty67 said:
And if your engine builder doesn't know that I'd take your engine to another builder.

+1

jb1dsl · Jun 28, 2007

65fastbackresto · Jun 28, 2007

He does mainly chevy motors

Is it a 28 oz counterweight? Maybe I should have been more specific....

Rusty67 · Jun 28, 2007

Yes, its 28oz imballance. If he didn't know that I would suguest taking it to a guy that knows these motors. If you take it to someone who knows about these kind of motors you may not get work that is neccisarily better but you get advice that will help keep the motor running as far as what to do during the rebuild. Advice like, put in an upgraded oil pump drive shaft or a high volume oil pump are prime examples of something a Ford guy would tell you to do that this guy may or may not.

rbohm · Jun 28, 2007

to rusty you listen. take your motor to a guy that knows fords.

65fastbackresto · Jun 28, 2007

Its kinda too late

Its bought and paid for now. This guy told me up front that he did mainly chevys, and wasn`t that knowledgeable about ford motors, but he also came highly recommended by just about every hot rodder around here. I went ahead and let him do it knowing this, could be a mistake on my part, but I beleive the parts of the motor he redone will be better then some of the other shops around, even if he isn`t ford savvy, he is motor savvy.

One thing though Rusty, I`m pretty sure I have a stock oil pump, do I need to upgrade this before installation? Are the stock pumps not good for hot rod app?

Rusty67 · Jun 28, 2007

I'm not sure its neccesary on a freshly rebuilt motor but a high volume oil pump wouldn't be bad. Get yourself an upgraded oil pump driveshaft as well. The stock ones tend to go barber shop on you if you have a lot of torque. There are other tips to building a fresh engine like what company has better bearings and which gaskets to use that can help your engine last longer.

rbohm · Jun 28, 2007

65fastbackresto said:
One thing though Rusty, I`m pretty sure I have a stock oil pump, do I need to upgrade this before installation? Are the stock pumps not good for hot rod app?

the stock pump is fine. in fact many people have had problems with distributor gears and their pins shearing when using a high volume oil pump. this mostly happens with 351w engines, but has been known to happen to the 289/302 engine as well. the stock pump provides more than adequate pressure and volume.

65fastbackresto · Jun 29, 2007

Cool on the oil pump then.

I ran into a guy at a car show while back, had 2 4 barrel carbs on a high rise intake, he claimed he didnt have enough vacuum to suck the oil back down to the bottom end of the motor because of huge cam.

In a case like that wouldn`t a high volume oil pump actually contribute to the problem?

jb1dsl · Jun 29, 2007

Don't believe all one is told.

D.Hearne · Jun 29, 2007

65fastbackresto said:
I ran into a guy at a car show while back, had 2 4 barrel carbs on a high rise intake, he claimed he didnt have enough vacuum to suck the oil back down to the bottom end of the motor because of huge cam.

In a case like that wouldn`t a high volume oil pump actually contribute to the problem?

Trust me, you were talking to an idiot.

Oil drains back to the pan via gravity alone. High volume pumps can suck the pan dry and cause distributor problems (which has been covered already) But the only reason to run one on a small block is if you have loose bearing clearances. Like a race engine or a motor you overhauled and simply replaced the bearings and didn't turn the crank.

65fastbackresto · Jun 29, 2007

Danny

I thought the story sounded a little funny when I heard it, but I wasn`t sure, thats why I asked.

Hows trucking treating you? Hey I`ve got you on my AIM intstant messenger somehow, its been there LONG time.

My ID is gofreshexpress

Steven Rupp · Jun 29, 2007

D.Hearne said:
Trust me, you were talking to an idiot. Oil drains back to the pan via gravity alone. High volume pumps can suck the pan dry and cause distributor problems (which has been covered already) But the only reason to run one on a small block is if you have loose bearing clearances. Like a race engine or a motor you overhauled and simply replaced the bearings and didn't turn the crank.

It's true.. high volume pumps were popular "back in the day" because engine has much looser tolerances. Nowadays that isn't an issue and most of the time a high volume pump is not needed on a new engine.

I even got a white paper from Crane on this.. let me see if I can dig it up.

I'm just running a nice Melling pump on my 408 with an ARP pump driveshaft.

65fastbackresto · Jun 29, 2007

No thats ok.

I`m gonna run an aftermarket oil pressure gauge anyway.

Its my understanding anything over like 10 at idle is good?

And it whould hold 25 to 30 lbs at speed?

Sound right anyone?

D.Hearne · Jun 29, 2007

My two small blocks have about 40 lbs at idle and 70-90 lbs at speed. Trucking's sucked this week. Worked too hard, truck broke down twice (friggin Detroit Diesels, all the do is leak oil and throw the belts off) Left Monday A.M, to Houston, then Ft Worth, reloaded Stephenville, back to Nawlins, back to Ft. Worth and back to Nawlins then home.

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