Is the AFR website full of crap?

ImportEater98 · Nov 8, 2005

Okay...well i decided since i am going AFR, i should pay a visit to thier website. Went into the dyno test section and saw they had a 302 making 455 fwhp with AFR 185s! That seems a bit far fetched. Heres a breakdown of what the wonder engine has:

Horsepower: 455 @ 6100RPM
Engine: 302
Heads: AFR 185
Compression: 10:1
Carburetor:650 cfm Speed Demon 84/87 Jets
Ignition:MSD Digital 7, 36° Timing
Cam:Comp Cams Extreme Energy Hyd Roller 282 Cam, 565/574 232/240 @. 050 with 1.6 Rockers, 112 Lobe Sep.
Exhaust:1 3/4
Fuel:92 Octane
Manifold : Victor Jr

Is this crapola Or is this what i could expect to get with this buildup?
Thanks!

dderek · Nov 8, 2005

well. i remember seeing a magazine get 400fwhp with a build with a STOCK cam. and 565 lift is alot more than stock.

but just remember this is FLYWHEEL hp we are talking.

but yeah. seems reachable.
increased compression too, 10 compared to 8.5 helps.

vikingpower · Nov 8, 2005

Go back to their site and read the MM&FF Ultimate Guide to Cylinder Heads they got posted at the bottom the SBF page, its a better source of info because the AFR stuff is tested against other manufacturers by a third party. In my opinion (especially after reading the Ultimate Guide to Cylinder Heads) the AFR stuff is too expensive for the small margin of HP difference

tjm73 · Nov 8, 2005

dderek said:
well. i remember seeing a magazine get 400fwhp with a build with a STOCK cam.

That was in Car Craft. You can see the article on the Car Craft website in the tech section.

DW5.0L · Nov 8, 2005

There are a ton of articles on the impact of AFR heads. fordmuscle, MM&FF, 5.0, Car Craft have all had something on them. I even saw one where the made 400hp with just the AFR heads, 1.7 RR and the stock 5.0 cam.

I would buy a set if I had a spare $1200.

InMyPrimeSVT · Nov 8, 2005

vikingpower said:
Go back to their site and read the MM&FF Ultimate Guide to Cylinder Heads they got posted at the bottom the SBF page, its a better source of info because the AFR stuff is tested against other manufacturers by a third party. In my opinion (especially after reading the Ultimate Guide to Cylinder Heads) the AFR stuff is too expensive for the small margin of HP difference

What would you go with then? Twisted Wedge?

ARMAGEDON · Nov 8, 2005

The twisted wedge outpowered all of them and they are cheaper than the afr's. Plus you get 2.02 valves that will work w/ your stock block and pistons. I have them on my '87 and they feel like the 75hp nos kit w/o using the kit.

retro50 · Nov 8, 2005

I will pretty much guarantee that most of these dyno runs have no accessories on the front of the motor .Not even a waterpump. They use an electric pump. No exhaust system,Just open headers. Start adding: waterpumps, alternators, Clutch fans, Power steering pumps,AC.pumps,smog Pumps,Exhaust systems, Cats, Etc. What will you have then? It would be a interesting project to find out! Some of these magazines should dyno an engine,then start adding accessories to see how much power they soak up. But they won't because the numbers will keep getting smaller. And the smaller numbers would hurt the sales of the products therefore hurting the manufactures themselves. That A.F.R.Headed combo on the website would probably be 330 at the wheels with all of the accessories intact pulling through a 5-speed.

emagdnim · Nov 8, 2005

The drivetrain and accessories isnt going to eat up 125hp if its a NA motor.

ImportEater98 · Nov 8, 2005

Well my setup is for a strickly race-only car. I am going to be running an electric water pump, only acc. being an alternator. The exhaust basically open, long tubes a couple glass packs and turn downs. I must say that is rather impressive for a relativly stock trim 302. I have read articles on TW heads. They are good heads, but i think AFR shows a lot more dyno proven results. I just had to get some input from the engine-smart guys here to steer me clear of this buildup if it is B/S! Thanks guys...any more input would be great.

89white50 · Nov 8, 2005

i would buy the track heat TW's for $1,150, and the 200$ i save would go into porting. bye-bye afr 185's, the out of the box tw's flow almost as much 185's out of box. I guess it all comes down to preference and goals, i plan on Track heats, they will go further.

vikingpower · Nov 8, 2005

InMyPrimeSVT said:
What would you go with then? Twisted Wedge?

Look closely at the article, they tested the TW against the 185's when they should have tested them against the 165's (the TW's were actually 168cc and should have been in the under 170cc group)... is 10hp worth a $250 markup? Hell no!!

vikingpower · Nov 9, 2005

89white50 said:
i would buy the track heat TW's for $1,150, and the 200$ i save would go into porting. bye-bye afr 185's, the out of the box tw's flow almost as much 185's out of box. I guess it all comes down to preference and goals, i plan on Track heats, they will go further.

Thats what I did, spent a couple nights after work doing a cartridge roll port and polish on the ports (I left the chambers alone- didnt want to f up those tungsten seats). 80 grit on the intake ports, 60 then 80 on the exhaust, exhaust ports looked really good when I was done with them! DIdnt spend too much time on the intake ports, just smoothed out the walls really good, I dont think I removed more than 1cc of material from them. Boy do the heads work good! Loud as hell too. Now, about that cam...

vikingpower · Nov 9, 2005

ImportEater98 said:
I have read articles on TW heads. They are good heads, but i think AFR shows a lot more dyno proven results.

Thats becuase AFR is the newcomer on the block and all the rage, everybody assumes they're the best just becuase they're CNC'd and all the magazines are crazy to use them in their articles. Meanwhile, TW's have been around for ten years and dont have that 'new smell' to them anymore

aleborjas · Nov 9, 2005

i preffer to get TW's than 165's but anyways i'm saving for some 185's for my 306 with compcams XE274hr cam and typhoon intake i hope geting mid 12's with my combo

vikingpower · Nov 9, 2005

aleborjas said:
i preffer to get TW's than 165's but anyways i'm saving for some 185's for my 306 with compcams XE274hr cam and typhoon intake i hope geting mid 12's with my combo

mid 11's sound more like it

tjm73 · Nov 9, 2005

The bottom line is the TrickFlow heads and the AFR heads are both very good heads. You really can't directly compare them without some kind of bias existing.

On two otherwise identical engines with these heads will produce very similar results. Neither will produce the same results everytime. Peak numbers will switch from engine to engine, as will peak torque.

The difference to a street car is purely acedemic IMO. Concentrait on the entire combo not just the heads used.

87'GTstang · Nov 9, 2005

tjm73 said:
The bottom line is the TrickFlow heads and the AFR heads are both very good heads. You really can't directly compare them without some kind of bias existing.

Exaclty, it comes down to what you like.

As for the AFR vs. TFS heads, the article I saw was pitting the TW against the AFR 165 heads. The TW are a 170cc design and yes, they did outflow the 165 heads. BUT, they use 2.02 valves compared to 1.90. This should be a testament to the cnc porting job done by AFR that if trick flow uses that much of a bigger valve and only has 5cc more intake chamber volume yet they hang fairly close. It can go either way, the two are close but the twisted wedges stepped up to a 2.02" valve to do so.

It isn't as said an apples to apples comparrison, the two sport different specs and materials. With the box AFR's they use efficiency by means of port velocity to get the job done whereas trick flow uses the age-old bigger is better philosophy. Just buy what interests you........

Blk91stang · Nov 9, 2005

vikingpower said:
Thats becuase AFR is the newcomer on the block and all the rage, everybody assumes they're the best just becuase they're CNC'd and all the magazines are crazy to use them in their articles. Meanwhile, TW's have been around for ten years and dont have that 'new smell' to them anymore

Are you saying AFR heads are all hype? I have these heads on a BBC and a 351W and the dyno numbers speak for themselves (yes, I'll get track #'s too.) Every head has different characteristics so there is no way to compare them unless their the same exact style and size. Bottom line, for what the AFR's are, they work very well!

89white50 · Nov 9, 2005

i wasnt bashing the AFR's at all, all i am is saying that track heat TW's, for the price, IMO, have a edge over the 165's or 185's. One question real quick, in the articles i have read they always pit the TW's against the 185, the 165's, though hp and torque numbers are very similar, do not flow like the other two. please correct me if im wrong. but of course its all about the combo.

Is the AFR website full of crap?

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