Is there a way to make the C&L 73 MM MAF work with my combo without a custom tune?

fordman54935 · Aug 28, 2006

Heres the deal. I'm running a Thumper/Tmoss combo with a Comp Cam and a mass air conversion. It runs great with a stock MAF, but I also have a C&L 73mm MAF (with 19 lb sampling tube & injectors) but the car wont even stay running with that meter installed. Would a Mass Air Adjuster from IST do the trick? I feel like i'm leaving alot of performance on the table to have the improved breathing capabilities of ported heads, intake, TB & cam to be breathing through the stock 55mm MAF. Its like breathing through a straw! Any suggestions? Different brand MAF? I dont have the $ for a tune. Modifications are in my signature.

Beasly B · Aug 28, 2006

There's no reason that I can think of why it won't idle unless a faulty meter or wrong sample tube. I had a cl 73mm for 30lb injectors on my car before this setup and it ran fine without a tune. There must be something up with your setup thats giving you trouble. I can say that when I switched mine from stock to the cl I could tell more of a differance with that then any other bolt on I've ever done.So you may want to check into it a little further

DMAN302 · Aug 28, 2006

I'm willing to bet you could get it to idle better if you returned to the stock inlet and box with a panel filter.

Foxfan88 · Aug 28, 2006

i have thumper heads and a tmoss intake. i have a B-cam. bolt on etc etc.... we have very simillar mods.

I have a vortech MAF, which is the same thing as the C&L 73mm and it runs fine.

vristang · Aug 28, 2006

fordman54935 said:
Heres the deal. I'm running a Thumper/Tmoss combo with a Comp Cam and a mass air conversion. It runs great with a stock MAF, but I also have a C&L 73mm MAF (with 19 lb sampling tube & injectors) but the car wont even stay running with that meter installed. Would a Mass Air Adjuster from IST do the trick? I feel like i'm leaving alot of performance on the table to have the improved breathing capabilities of ported heads, intake, TB & cam to be breathing through the stock 55mm MAF. Its like breathing through a straw! Any suggestions? Different brand MAF? I dont have the $ for a tune. Modifications are in my signature.

That setup should work.

A few questions for you...
Can you verify the diameter of the C&L sample tube?
(Sometimes the color code can get washed off by solvents used to clean the MAF elements. It could be that the wrong tube is installed, even though it is free of color coding. Also, sometimes C&L does not color code the sample tube when they send the complete unit out the door)
What computer are you using? We need to know the catch code A9L, A9P, X3Z?
There should be a 4 digit branding on the Factory Ford MAS sensor. Is it F1ZF?
When you install the C&L MAF, do you reuse the same MAS sensor (the one currently in your 55mm Ford MAF)?

I bet you have a parts mismatch, which should be fairly easy to resolve as soon as we figure out what parts you really have.
There are a few different ways to make the conversion to MAF, so that is the wild card now.

You should see some improvement with the C&L, once its setup correctly.

jason

bryce93lx · Aug 29, 2006

i have a e cam cobra intake and dart heads and a 73 c and l calibrated to 24 and i works fine

fordman54935 · Aug 30, 2006

vristang said:
That setup should work.

A few questions for you...
Can you verify the diameter of the C&L sample tube?
(Sometimes the color code can get washed off by solvents used to clean the MAF elements. It could be that the wrong tube is installed, even though it is free of color coding. Also, sometimes C&L does not color code the sample tube when they send the complete unit out the door)
What computer are you using? We need to know the catch code A9L, A9P, X3Z?
There should be a 4 digit branding on the Factory Ford MAS sensor. Is it F1ZF?
When you install the C&L MAF, do you reuse the same MAS sensor (the one currently in your 55mm Ford MAF)?

I bet you have a parts mismatch, which should be fairly easy to resolve as soon as we figure out what parts you really have.
There are a few different ways to make the conversion to MAF, so that is the wild card now.

You should see some improvement with the C&L, once its setup correctly.

jason

Thanks for all the input!
The diameter of the sampling tube is 0.654" on the tapered end (which faces into the airstream - to the air filter box) and 0.472" on the downstream end. Maybe its possible its the wrong size sampling tube? I did purchase it used.

The computer and MAF meter came from Ford Racing M/T computer kit M12071-F302, so the EEC processor and MAF are brand new. The computer itself is an A3M1 and the MAF is F1ZF-12B579-AA. The C&L is designed to used the stock MAF, so I used the new one that came with the kit.

Can anyone verify there 19lb sampling tube diameter with the dimensions on mine?

fordman54935 · Aug 30, 2006

I've read that the 19lb sampling tube is straight through and doesn't have a step in it like mine has. Is this true?

vristang · Aug 30, 2006

I have most of the C&L sample tube diameters on my site (see sig).
I would post 'em, but my workplace does not allow access to my site. Maybe when I get home.
C&L does not publish the diameters.

jason

fordman54935 · Aug 30, 2006

Jason, what an awesome website! From your list of sample tube diameters, it looks like I have Green tube (36/38 lbs/hr). No wonder it runs lean as all hell! You also confirmed what I've heard about the 19 lb/hr sample tube having no step in it. Your website is now bookmarked as a favorite. Thanks for your hard work.

vristang · Aug 30, 2006

fordman54935 said:
Jason, what an awesome website! From your list of sample tube diameters, it looks like I have Green tube (36/38 lbs/hr). No wonder it runs lean as all hell! You also confirmed what I've heard about the 19 lb/hr sample tube having no step in it. Your website is now bookmarked as a favorite. Thanks for your hard work.

Glad it could help

I think C&L will tag you for about $20 for the correct tube, but I'm not sure.

Let us know if that fixes the problem or not.
I bet it will though.

jason

fordman54935 · Sep 11, 2006

New C&L sampling tube installed, problem solved. Now the engine really likes to breathe up top. Thanks for all the help guys.

stang8urimport · Sep 11, 2006

Awesome to see good tech here! :SNSign:

Ozrunner · Sep 12, 2006

Jason

I must also add my thanks for your informative website .

Over past few days I have been getting super frustrated testing etc as I got a C&L 73MAF with Pro M calibrated electronics for 24's from the US.

But something is definately wrong as its falling on its a*s bigtime at WOT and my wideband a/f ratio gauge was showing its so lean it was off the scale.

From looking at your site it appears it may have the wrong tube as its red, meaning 30lbs, whereas it should have the blue 24lb tube. Somebody goofed

I know where I can get a 24lb tube and will do so tomorrow and hopefully problem solved, so thanks again and also to fordman54935 for his initial post.

Cheers
JD

Biggeley · Sep 12, 2006

You can't use pro-m calibrated electronics with a C&L. The elecronics you have are set up for a pro-m mass airflow sensor and the 24 lbs injectors. This is nothing remotely resembling the stock MAF electronics and its "calibration". What you are trying to do simply will not work right. Swapping to a 24 lb tube will not cure the lean condition.

You must get a factory maf with the factory electronics and then swap that into the C&L.

Ozrunner · Sep 12, 2006

Can't show the link as it appears to be down but I got 8 x 24lbs FMS injectors with a 73mm C&L MAF calibrated by Pro M for 24lb injectors, ie the electronics has Pro M on it with scribed serial number and 24lb etc etc.

But it appears it may have a 30lb tube as its red !!!. Other than at WOT it runs a perfect a/f ratio.

In the meantime I am now running the Pro M electronics on a Ford 73 MAF and again its fine in all areas except at WOT being 13.2 but at least its useable at WOT and not dangerous . The C&L was so lean at WOT it was off the scale.

Any help would be appreciated.

8950HO · Sep 12, 2006

Why doesn`t C&L stamp the injector size on their sample tubes instead of relying on color coding?

fordman54935 · Sep 12, 2006

8950HO said:
Why doesn`t C&L stamp the injector size on their sample tubes instead of relying on color coding?

I agree! The paint-dot technique they use doesnt work. Anytime that paint is exposed to fuel vapors inside the inlet tract under a hot engine bay it lasts about 5 minutes!

Anyone need a green tube? 36/38 lb injectors? I'll sell it cheap

Flavadave4 · Sep 12, 2006

Jason, nice work on the website......added to my favorites!

vristang · Sep 12, 2006

Thanks for the compliments on the site.
The only reason I put that together was because I was getting frustrated with all the seemingly contraditctory info, just like you guys.
I am very glad it could help

Ozrunner said:
Can't show the link as it appears to be down but I got 8 x 24lbs FMS injectors with a 73mm C&L MAF calibrated by Pro M for 24lb injectors, ie the electronics has Pro M on it with scribed serial number and 24lb etc etc.

But it appears it may have a 30lb tube as its red !!!. Other than at WOT it runs a perfect a/f ratio.

In the meantime I am now running the Pro M electronics on a Ford 73 MAF and again its fine in all areas except at WOT being 13.2 but at least its useable at WOT and not dangerous . The C&L was so lean at WOT it was off the scale.

Any help would be appreciated.

Unless Pro-M cal'd the MAS while it was in the C&L tube, this setup will not be ideal. Pro-M changes the voltage output scaling of the MAS to recal.

If this setup is working, it is purely coincidental. This is not the best way to run.
Ideally, you should find a stock MAS (just the little black box / sensor) for your COMPUTER. Doing this will make the C&L match the injectors as best as possible.
If the car is A9* computer equipped, then a F1ZF MAS should be correct.
They are common in junk yards. Look for taurus, crown vic, and others. Anything marked F1ZF.

Good Luck,
jason

Is there a way to make the C&L 73 MM MAF work with my combo without a custom tune?

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