Is torque plate honing necessary for 4-500hp?

ryan7662 · Oct 15, 2009

Hello again, is torque plate honing really a necessity for power levels between 4-500hp. Its my stock 351w I just rebuilt and since the motor was only ran for about 3 hours I just wanna slap a good set of hyp. pistons in. Was going to toss it in my 95, throw a 70-72mm turbo on and be done with it. Was thinking I could keep the stock heads, crank, and rods and swap the regular cast pistons out for the hyp. pistons. The block was bored and honed at a shop but I'm almost certain they didn't use torque plates. Could I just toss the hyp pistons in slap the turbo on the pretty much stock motor and have a happy reliable 4-500hp or would the block have to be honed again with torque plates?

The main point is to get the 95 running and save my money for my 84lx which is going to be twin turboed with a dart iron eagle block. But if theres nothing wrong if swapping out the pistons in a pretty much freshly rebuilt 351w I'd like to do that too.

revhead347 · Oct 15, 2009

Hardly anybody hones with torque plates, and engines turn out just fine. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Kurt

BlackVert · Oct 22, 2009

my builder always uses torque plates because he says the pressure of the torqued down heads does change the shape of the cylinders and the you end up with a better seal which means more power. but he is one of those guys who is all about the details and that is why he still builds racing engines after 40 years. customers come to him wanting him to squeeze as much power as possible out of the engines he builds, and that is part of his approach

do you really NEED it done like that? no

would a serious racer want it done like that? yes

would no torque plates on the hone job be noticeable to a regular hack like me when driving around? no

nmcgrawj · Oct 22, 2009

BlackVert said:
my builder always uses torque plates because he says the pressure of the torqued down heads does change the shape of the cylinders and the you end up with a better seal which means more power. but he is one of those guys who is all about the details and that is why he still builds racing engines after 40 years. customers come to him wanting him to squeeze as much power as possible out of the engines he builds, and that is part of his approach

do you really NEED it done like that? no

would a serious racer want it done like that? yes

would no torque plates on the hone job be noticeable to a regular hack like me when driving around? no

So the headbolts, or studs, that apply pressure perpendicular to the deck of the block cause cylinders to distort that are also perpendicular to the deck of the block?

Just having a hard time imagining it. Sounds like a theory from trigonometry in highschool LOL. Show me some data that backs up these claims (not telling u literally). It could sound good on paper and not actually really do anything. How can you prove it? Dyno engines back to back? Leak down compression tests?

Seems like there are too many variables involved to prove it.

BlackVert · Oct 22, 2009

having had no real life experience with it, all i can do is report what i am told. and that is what my engine builder (his name is jan norris) told me. as i said, he has been building racing engines for 40+ years now. he also teaches automotive engineering courses at the university of maryland (college park). so i think it is safe to believe what he says.

nmcgrawj · Oct 22, 2009

BlackVert said:
having had no real life experience with it, all i can do is report what i am told. and that is what my engine builder (his name is jan norris) told me. as i said, he has been building racing engines for 40+ years now. he also teaches automotive engineering courses at the university of maryland (college park). so i think it is safe to believe what he says.

I understand man. Im just simply saying with stuff like that, i'd love to be in one of his classes so i can say....prove it. Even a theory that makes sense doesnt always play out in real life. And an impressive resume thats 100 pages long doesnt mean i automatically believe u....it just means that u should be able to prove it to me even easier.

GDTrumbo · Oct 23, 2009

This slight cylinder distortion was found at the tops of the cylinder bores years ago. For street/passenger cars it's not really a big issue.

To eliminate this, the designers of the modular engines utilized the long head bolts to grab the block at the base of the cylinders. Motorcycles have been like this for years.

If I was building a 4 to 500 hp engine, I would. Thats just me.

GT

BlackVert · Oct 23, 2009

GDTrumbo said:
...
To eliminate this, the designers of the modular engines utilized the long head bolts to grab the block at the base of the cylinders. Motorcycles have been like this for years.

dang those must be some long a$$ bolts

sl03gt · Oct 23, 2009

My neighbor went high 11's on a na motor that was not torque plate honed nor balanced in a full weight 71 lemans.

revhead347 · Oct 25, 2009

nmcgrawj said:
Just having a hard time imagining it. Sounds like a theory from trigonometry in highschool LOL. Show me some data that backs up these claims (not telling u literally). It could sound good on paper and not actually really do anything. How can you prove it? Dyno engines back to back? Leak down compression tests?

Look, if you want an indepth explanation, then look around on the internet. The fact that someone invented a "torque plate" to remedy the problem is proof enough for me. People generally don't create expensive inventions to fix problems that don't exist.

My engine wasn't done with torque plates, and it turned out just fine. I imagine if I was running a high power car in a tight class, I would probably do it.

Kurt

nmcgrawj · Oct 25, 2009

revhead347 said:
Look, if you want an indepth explanation, then look around on the internet. The fact that someone invented a "torque plate" to remedy the problem is proof enough for me. People generally don't create expensive inventions to fix problems that don't exist.

My engine wasn't done with torque plates, and it turned out just fine. I imagine if I was running a high power car in a tight class, I would probably do it.

Kurt

Relax. My point was i would want more than just words on paper or a monitor to see what is physically happening in the motor. The fact that something was invented doesnt mean squat. That simply means they could profit off of the idea.

Searching on the internet you could find crap to support either side of the argument. Which is also why i said i would enjoy to be in this guy's class so i could get up close and personal with his claims. Didnt know i wasnt allowed to think on my own

Or perhaps you could tune into the infomercials on tonight at 3am to see the many inventions that must work....since someone went through the trouble of inventing them

revhead347 · Oct 26, 2009

You've got a decent point. I talk with the chief engineer for John Force Racing occasionally, and he says they make a big difference on high power engines.

Kurt

S351Saleen77 · Oct 26, 2009

ryan7662,
If it was me I would put in Forged instead Hypereutectic pistons since you are planning on boost.
And yes I would spend the $150 and have it honed with torque plate's held on by bolts or studs whatever you are using. (I would recommend getting head studs).

But you will probably be o.k. not doing anything I said. Just get your tune right and don't go lean and have detonation, that's what is going to give you problems.

thumper460 · Oct 27, 2009

I would be more worried about the Hyper pistons and that power levels! But you will build MORE Power with the cylinders trued with a deck plate when final hone is done!! Is it "Required" ?? Nope!! but that is why some cars are faster than others with the same engine components... attn to detail!! It is called indexing and Blueprinting!!

Just me.............................

Thumper

Is torque plate honing necessary for 4-500hp?

ryan7662

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revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

BlackVert

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revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

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revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

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