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I've Decided To Build A 351/400

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  • Start date Start date Jan 30, 2016
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from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
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#1
  • Jan 30, 2016
  • #1
Getting all the preliminary stuff out the way, asking questions, ect. My builder is on the West coast and he and I communicate a lot but I know he's busy so I don't text or call him every few minutes I have a question. I usually have some written down to ask when we talk. I'm either going to go with a stock 351 block or a Dart. Depending on what he can find and if he can find a good one reasonable then I will go stock. I would probably go with a dart overall depending on cost difference for him finding a good 351 from a salvage yard. ( How much would a 351 from a yard probably go for ) ? I do want to use my AC so I will need the accompanying brackets. Again depends on what he can find or not, if he can't get all of the brackets I need to know what my options are for purchasing them. I'd like to gather my list and have everything written down with options, ect.

My car was a v6 and changed to a v8 in 02. I'm not sure it came with a k member. Actually just looked at some images and it appears it does. Two questions. No. 1 I assume te k members unbolt, as it looks like its welded in looking at images from outside of the car online. No. 2 what will suffice for this new setup? The car will be a non track car, weekend driver, nice street setup and I will only play around with it on the street as I choose .

With that being said, I want to make sure I match everything up correctly and so to avoid fitment issues with anything hitting the k member or oil pan hitting something, ect.

My fluidyne radiator has a leak at the fins and was going to put the stocker back in so I will still do that as I've read up on a lot of guys using the stockers without overheating issues. Thoughts??

Will go ahead and get an Astro tranny. Dang have to send mine in to get the $300 core back I wonder how much it will be to ship it back to them. I used my v6 tranny when I did the swap.

What size injectors will do me fine? Builder mentioned that he'd recommend the new injector spray technology and I will go with those but what size upgrading from 24's to what for this motor will suffice?

Will probably want to go with Longtubes overall but in the back of my mind I'm thinking about the clearance issues, the car being too low issue ( though I'm going to put a coilover it on the front because as my car sits right now, the rear is lower ). So yes I'm going to consider all of that. I currently have shorties.

I've had some MSD stuff and really probably would avoid going with their distributor and even their coil because I've had some coils fail. So which dizzy ( or some ideas)?

I have a new IAC that I never put on so hopefully that will work with the Anderson power pipe and the Edel performer rpm 2. Work as in fit as how it bolts up stock. I think some guys had to use the rectangular/round shaped IAC for some reason???

As for Heads it will more than likely be AFR 205's or Dart cast iron 205s. I like the look of the aluminum head though I know it won't be seen lol, just to know they are aluminum and when pics are taken of the build through the process, ect. He is pretty particular in his work and a lot of the reason I will let him do the work because I trust him like he would build his own. As for the AFR vs the Dart one lil tid bit he shared was the BTU's escaping with aluminum heads and the whole thermal efficiency thing plus I'd say around 600 bucks minimum going with the Darts so I definitely will consider all of that.



I think that's all for now. Thanks in advance for the help
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#2
  • Jan 30, 2016
  • #2
I wouldn't use iron heads. The afr's will out produce the dart irons and weigh less. You also can run more compression with an aluminum headed motor. If you're building a new motor(especially a Dart block) I wouldn't build less than a 408. It doesn't cost much more and makes a lot more torque. Any 302 lower intake isn't going to fit on a 351 motor. Also the worse thing you can do is put 302 sized parts on your motor. These will all choke the motor. You have to think "big",you're adding 50 or more cubic inches. Minimum of long tube 1 3/4" headers,205 heads,tfs r box intake or edelbrock super Vic EFI intake,90mm throttle body,MAF,etc, and at least 42# inj,255lph pump and I'd look into a Mallory for a dizzy. Going to need a tune also.
 
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from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
15 Year Member
Sep 2, 2012
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Jan 30, 2016
#3
  • Jan 30, 2016
  • #3
A5literMan said:
I wouldn't use iron heads. The afr's will out produce the dart irons and weigh less. You also can run more compression with an aluminum headed motor. If you're building a new motor(especially a Dart block) I wouldn't build less than a 408. It doesn't cost much more and makes a lot more torque. Any 302 lower intake isn't going to fit on a 351 motor. Also the worse thing you can do is put 302 sized parts on your motor. These will all choke the motor. You have to think "big",you're adding 50 or more cubic inches. Minimum of long tube 1 3/4" headers,205 heads,tfs r box intake or edelbrock super Vic EFI intake,90mm throttle body,MAF,etc, and at least 42# inj,255lph pump and I'd look into a Mallory for a dizzy. Going to need a tune also.
Click to expand...
Yes I love my performer rpm 2 so going to get the one for the 351
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#4
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #4
from6to8 said:
Yes I love my performer rpm 2 so going to get the one for the 351
Click to expand...
Ummm they don't make one for a 5.8?!?
 

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
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#5
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #5
A5literMan said:
Ummm they don't make one for a 5.8?!?
Click to expand...
Saw one the other day for a 351
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#6
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #6
from6to8 said:
Saw one the other day for a 351
Click to expand...
I've never seen an EFI rpm intake for 5.8 blocks. Maybe something new?
 

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis
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#7
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #7
From what I read above, you need to do more research. Find a completed build that you like and mimic it. Don't guess at what you think you need.
 

Noobz347

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#8
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #8
What do you do with the ignition system?

I may know who might have the answers to a lot of these questions:

@SpartaPerformance They do an Edlebrock small block 460 and if I recall, at least mentioned EFI in their description.
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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#9
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #9
The holley sytemax was based off the truck lower intake .... I don't know for sure but you may be able to port the lower to match a Systemax intake. I remember reading somewhere that something was off a little with them. I do know for sure that a phenolic spacer for the truck efi also works on the Systemax.
 

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
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#10
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #10
A5literMan said:
I've never seen an EFI rpm intake for 5.8 blocks. Maybe something new?
Click to expand...
http://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edelbrock-Ford-58L-EFI-Manifolds/751770/10002/-1

But man ole man, $831 for upper then another $ 420 for the lower man are they crazy or something lmao
I was thinking 831 total.

actually I looked wrong. They sell just the lower if you want or you can get both.
Just called Jegs and confirmed they do have it for the 5.8
 
Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
15 Year Member
Sep 2, 2012
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Jan 31, 2016
#11
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #11
Noobz347 said:
What do you do with the ignition system?

I may know who might have the answers to a lot of these questions:

@SpartaPerformance They do an Edlebrock small block 460 and if I recall, at least mentioned EFI in their description.
Click to expand...
is that a question for me? I mean I will inquire but shouldn't I be ok with standard ignition stuff? Ofcourse a good dizzy and coil. My coil on the car not is good. I think the stocker is on since the MSD failed. I had a 6AL yrs and yrs ago and It became faulty so I disconnected it
 

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
15 Year Member
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Jan 31, 2016
#12
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #12
90sickfox said:
The holley sytemax was based off the truck lower intake .... I don't know for sure but you may be able to port the lower to match a Systemax intake. I remember reading somewhere that something was off a little with them. I do know for sure that a phenolic spacer for the truck efi also works on the Systemax.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks I will inquire, but judging from this link it looks like they offer the RPM II for a 5.8 , the same one I have but ofcourse for the 5.8.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edelbrock-Ford-58L-EFI-Manifolds/751770/10002/-1
 

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
15 Year Member
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#13
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #13
hoopty5.0 said:
From what I read above, you need to do more research. Find a completed build that you like and mimic it. Don't guess at what you think you need.
Click to expand...
yeah I have to google folks who went 351/400/408 and still running their AC
 

Noobz347

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#14
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #14
from6to8 said:
is that a question for me? I mean I will inquire but shouldn't I be ok with standard ignition stuff? Ofcourse a good dizzy and coil. My coil on the car not is good. I think the stocker is on since the MSD failed. I had a 6AL yrs and yrs ago and It became faulty so I disconnected it
Click to expand...


That sends an alert to that member to take a look at the thread when they log on.

ON small blocks, the distributors are swapped when going from EFI to carb or back. So I don't know what all the specifics are but I'm pretty sure that the trigger for the carb setup will not work with a Ford OEM EFI (even if it's chipped). It might work with some of the after market EFI. There might also be some sort of signal converter I'm not aware of.

The member that I tagged in my last post might know the answers to these questions. With any luck, he'll be along to read your thread.
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#15
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #15
from6to8 said:
http://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edelbrock-Ford-58L-EFI-Manifolds/751770/10002/-1

But man ole man, $831 for upper then another $ 420 for the lower man are they crazy or something lmao
I was thinking 831 total.
Click to expand...
I didn't know they were offering that now. Cool. Learned something new. Oh and that 831$ unit included the upper and lower for the 5.8 FYI. If you're going with more cubes than 351(i.e. Stroker-408/427 etc) go with a bigger intake. All of the advertised rpm range is based off a 351 build. Adding the extra cubic inches will "shrink" the operating range of said intake. For example if it says 1500-6500rpm operating range,a stroker will shrink that by at least 12-1500 rpm. Most of the efi intakes will not make power above 5500 rpms. They start to flatline at 5k or so. They will make a bunch of torque(way too much for usability in a street sense). If you're staying standard bore/stroke(351) then they will be fine. But to be honest I think you'll not be happy with the power production of such a motor.
 

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
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#16
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #16
Noobz347 said:
That sends an alert to that member to take a look at the thread when they log on.

ON small blocks, the distributors are swapped when going from EFI to carb or back. So I don't know what all the specifics are but I'm pretty sure that the trigger for the carb setup will not work with a Ford OEM EFI (even if it's chipped). It might work with some of the after market EFI. There might also be some sort of signal converter I'm not aware of.

The member that I tagged in my last post might know the answers to these questions. With any luck, he'll be along to read your thread.
Click to expand...
ok cool. I clicked on it and I see where you can start a conversation with him but I will probably start it tomorrow or tonite when I get time and give him a little time if he may answer here.

Yeah not sure how the carb relates to me as mine is EFI now unless you mean with using an older 351 block?
 

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
15 Year Member
Sep 2, 2012
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#17
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #17
A5literMan said:
I didn't know they were offering that now. Cool. Learned something new. Oh and that 831$ unit included the upper and lower for the 5.8 FYI. If you're going with more cubes than 351(i.e. Stroker-408/427 etc) go with a bigger intake. All of the advertised rpm range is based off a 351 build. Adding the extra cubic inches will "shrink" the operating range of said intake. For example if it says 1500-6500rpm operating range,a stroker will shrink that by at least 12-1500 rpm. Most of the efi intakes will not make power above 5500 rpms. They start to flatline at 5k or so. They will make a bunch of torque(way too much for usability in a street sense). If you're staying standard bore/stroke(351) then they will be fine. But to be honest I think you'll not be happy with the power production of such a motor.
Click to expand...
gotcha. I will look further into it. I do want things matched up as best they can be. Dang I remember when that intake came out and I bought one back in 05 for my setup and it was bad ass and they made major improvements. If its for a 5.8 L I don't see why it would be limited to 6500 ????/
 

Noobz347

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  • Jan 31, 2016
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from6to8 said:
ok cool. I clicked on it and I see where you can start a conversation with him but I will probably start it tomorrow or tonite when I get time and give him a little time if he may answer here.

Yeah not sure how the carb relates to me as mine is EFI now unless you mean with using an older 351 block?
Click to expand...


Hang loose. He'll find your thread when he logs on.
 

from6to8

There's suction so I used that end O_O
15 Year Member
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#19
  • Jan 31, 2016
  • #19
Noobz347 said:
Hang loose. He'll find your thread when he logs on.
Click to expand...
Sounds good.
So is it only those few choice intakes for anothing 400 ci or better?
 

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
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#20
  • Feb 1, 2016
  • #20
from6to8 said:
Sounds good.
So is it only those few choice intakes for anothing 400 ci or better?
Click to expand...

I would recommend looking at a victor style intake with an elbow as opposed to an upper/lower plenum style. It may or may not suit your rpm power window you want- may want to look at that, but it's a lot less of a pita. I cant wait to lose my rpm II.
 
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