Just bought my first Fox, and I need some exhaust and gearing help.

MYSTICSVT said:

I currently have the wife trained to NOT use OD in town. I figured that with a much lower gear set though, that I would HAVE to use OD in town. Or face a big drop in fuel mileage. Am I correct in that thought?

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Oh ok I thought you were usind OD in town now. Just wanted to save you from HAVING to do the 5 speed swap earlier than you plan. As for as having to use it after the gear swap I don't know , but I wouldn't think so. I have been told there isn't a huge difference in mileage around town.

GRGT1994 said:

I think he meant to say that equal length shorties are a pain in the butt to install. I'm not speaking from experience here as I have installed neither, but that seems to be what everyone else says - equals free up a bit more power, but are hard to install.

Nice choice on going with the manual by the way. Much more fun to drive, and automatic = anesthetic.

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I thought my equal lengths were easy to install? The only problem I had was trying to get two of the bolt holes to line up (on the same flange)...it appeared the headers had "warped" a bit (been on the car for 5 years or so)...so I just used a prybar and all was well...

Other than that...the headers dropped down in with just a few seconds of negotiating...

Do the math guys - based on the gear sets in the AOD tranny (3rd 1:1; 4th or OD is .68 or .62) going from a 2.73 to a 3.73 is almost exactly like shifting it from OD back into 3rd. Driving around town with 3.73's and not locking out OD will be just like w/2.73's and leaving it in 3rd.

If you are going to buy headers you would be hard pressed to find any better than the FRPP "Jet Hot" shorties. Plenty of clearence for spark plugs, Jet Hot "Sterling" finish with lifetime warranty, 409 stainless steel, 1 peice flange so you don't have to use a "Pry Bar" to put the on.(no offense 5spd GT).

I second the quality of the FRPP pieces - I had mine ceramic coated locally after certain "percussion adjustments" were made so they'd fit my car.

Headers -long tubes and shorties - are really hit and miss when it comes to fit - mostly miss. Without a one piece flange, pry bars are frequently needed - if not when new, then the first time they're removed. With a one piece flange, the flanged surface is rarely flat/true - which is a major cause of header leaks and bolts which won't stay tight. And long tubes more often than not have to be massaged somewhere to clear various bits that they interfere with.

If you want certainty - buy your headers uncoated - test fit them, make any adjustments you need to, then remove them and have them coated. Then install them. It's a pain, but it's the only way to be certain. Buying headers pre-coated has at least some risk that you'll have to bang up that pretty new header to get it to fit - chances are greater you'll have to do that on long tubes or equal length shorties than on unequal shorties. By the way, even on unequal shorties, if the flange has to be milled to make it flat/true - you want it coated AFTER that's done, not before.

Yea the 5 spd. is alot more fun. As for the MAC performance parts...I have a MAC O/R h-pipe and it fit, but I know someone with a 98 that ordered the prochamber and it doesn't fit. He finally took it to a shop to have it cut and welded. I would stay away from MAC headers. Get either BBK or Ford Racing. Both the prochamber and Flow Path cat-back sound really mean...and different from the thousands of people running flowmaster's.

5 spd is so much more fun to drive, drivin by another stang and pressin that clutch in and givin it a little rev is all worth it!

5spd GT said:

I disagree for the opposite...if the AOD is allowed to be set up right why can't we set up the 5spd right? Not the best comparison...

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Wha's to setup on a 5 speed? A shifter, clutch quad/cable/adjuster?

5spd GT said:

Well I think 373's is as far as anyone should go on a daily driven 5.0 whether it be a 5spd or auto...so the gears have no bearing on my decision whether to be 5spd or auto...

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On a 5 speed totally agree. On an AOD totally disagree. But that's just me.

5spd GT said:

A 5spd swap has good advantages...less weight, quicker E.T's, more power to the wheels because less drivetrain "drag", and funner in most people's "opinions", easier to rebuild...etc...

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Less weight....yes
Quicker ET's.....Mmmmm...debatable. If the tranny is set up correctly. With pretty near 99% of drivers they will be faster and quicker and more consistent with a good automatic. Walk through the local track where guys are seriously racing for $$$. How many sticks do you see? How many automatics?
More power to wheels.....true. Not huge difference though.

But that's why they have chocolate and vanilla.

deftsound said:

5 spd is so much more fun to drive, drivin by another stang and pressin that clutch in and givin it a little rev is all worth it!

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This seems so childish to me.

tjm73 said:

Wha's to setup on a 5 speed? A shifter, clutch quad/cable/adjuster?

On a 5 speed totally agree. On an AOD totally disagree. But that's just me.

Less weight....yes
Quicker ET's.....Mmmmm...debatable. If the tranny is set up correctly. With pretty near 99% of drivers they will be faster and quicker and more consistent with a good automatic. Walk through the local track where guys are seriously racing for $$$. How many sticks do you see? How many automatics?
More power to wheels.....true. Not huge difference though.

But that's why they have chocolate and vanilla.

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Yeah those...and put different gear ratios in there and make the gears stronger to hold more power (cheaper than an auto)...

I personally believe 410's are to much for a stock AOD...modified (h/c/i or more) and that is a different story...

Quicker E.T.'s with a good driver is guaranteed...less weight...

Yeah those guys that race for money are usually the "fast" guys...because they race with consistancy (auto) and are much faster...again, like I said if your running 11.5 or faster the 5spd is usually the best route to go...auto below that...

On the drivetrain loss (20% vs. 15-18%) on the "far right and left" scale...that is a pretty big difference...depending on how much power you got you can have 10-30hp more...

I have personally went from auto-5spd and I know what is better...I think that is enough right there...

MYSTICSVT said:

Will running an offroad H or X pipe set a "Check Engine" light, or have any other adverse conditions with the EFI?

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Not on a 5.0, the only thing you'll need is O2 Extensions if you go with long tubes, but either way you will not have the check engine light on. Thats only on later mustangs and they have MIL Eliminators for that problem.

5spd GT said:

I have personally went from auto-5spd and I know what is better...I think that is enough right there...

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Not questioning your creds man. Just saying the auto is not a worse way to go over the 5 speed. It's different. I've driven several different kinds of both set ups, so I have experience to draw from as well.

You know better becasue you've gone auto to 5-spd swap? No one knows what is better for someone else. I only offered my opinion on the subject. No offence, but you sound arogent with this post.

I think I touced on it earlier guys - tranny choice is completely subjective. As only you can decide what you like, and you can't decide it for somebody else. For someone that likes/prefers an automatic, a manual just won't cut it. No different than when the opposite conclusion is reached - as with me. I prefer the manual. That doesn't make the auto bad - just a bad choice for me.

I guess I'll throw in my .02cents here..
I have mac shorties and a mac o/r h with flowmaster 2 series out back... Let me put it like this, you're going to get noticed in parking lots, on highways, driving to and from work... etc. Some people will like the sound, others will hate it. I personally start the damn thing up just to listen to it idle... It's all about preference. I've heard the h gives the old school muscle car rumble, the x has a more exotic, newer sound to it. If you like cars, you'll be happy with either because it's all good at 5grand in 3rd screaming through a tunnel, your own personal race track symphony. On the gears part, I can't comment, but seems everyone with 5spds prays to the 373's...
Oh yah, to answer your question on "Is it loud?" yah, it's loud...

FrdMustangCpe said:

OT: is there no emissions over in AZ? im moving to vegas and i dont know what the deal is over there.

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I'll let you in on BIG ****1NG secret.

Las Vegas is in Nevada NOT Arizona.

Lets touch on a few things here...

Serious racers have autos...
Serious racers usually do have auto's, that is true.
Those same cars are usually trailer'd, and not street driven.
They usually have stalls up handy to 4000rpm, and every shift near tears the rear end out on account of the tranny shifting so hard and quick.
This would be about as fun to drive daily as a backhoe.

Shorties...
Make nearly the same hp as long tubes, but, less tq.
They have a more hysterical sound to them, they will be louder than LT's at idle and part throttle situations... so, pretty much 99% of your street driving, shorties will be more audible than LT's.

Mac Mufflers...
Are without a doubt the loudest muffler I've heard, outside of full on race mufflers, or 1 chamber Flo jobbies. Ouch.

X vs H...
Very well sum'd up above.
One is more muscle car like, the other more exocit car like.
Personal preference will be the factor here.

Gearing...
I've had 3.73's.
I now have 4.10's.
I like the 4.10's better, but, I don't do road trips, or, when I do, I'm not out to set new point A to point B records. Speed limit is more than fine by me.
Neither gear makes 1st usless... drivers make 1st usseless.
I drove cross country once at 100+mph with the 3.73's out back and 245/50-16 tires. I would not want to 'Smokey and the Bandit' with 4.10's.
4.10's around town are much more fun than 3.73, and requires the same amount of shifts.
If shifting bothers you, stay automatic, or, find some 2.73's.

I run 4.10's, 5spd, Lt's, off road H, and flo's 2 chmbrs on a stock motor.
The car is loud.
The car is loud enough that conversation becomes an effort.
The car is loud enough, that on the 35 mile trip to the track, I'm ready to get out and see if I can still hear birds.
On the other hand, my 15 minuit drive to work, is very enjoyable.
This is in a Notch.
A hatchback would be worse, and a 'vert would be not be as bad.

My opinion...
If your wife drives this car with the kids on board...
Put 3.55's in it, or leave 'em stock, put 1-1/2" long tubes on it (good low end-mid range, and nice mellow sound), or leave 'em stock, on it , H or X, (I'd go H) and put some Cobra mufflers on it, or, leave 'em stock...

My AOD with flowmasters and H pipe sounds pretty mean including the 4.10s

tjm73 said:

Not questioning your creds man. Just saying the auto is not a worse way to go over the 5 speed. It's different. I've driven several different kinds of both set ups, so I have experience to draw from as well.

You know better becasue you've gone auto to 5-spd swap? No one knows what is better for someone else. I only offered my opinion on the subject. No offence, but you sound arogent with this post.

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Well the original poster (who I was reponding to originally) obviously has no problem with a manual (he wants one)...so I gave him the positives on the manual...again because he is wanting to do the swap...basically I endorsed the manual in THIS thread...

In this case I believe my statement was perfectly fine...because he wants a manual...I don't just "bust" in any thread and tell them to do the swap... ...in fact I like autos because sometimes I wish I had them in stop and go traffic...but the reality is - "arrogant" or not" - ...with his current situation the 5spd will get him their cheaper and make him quicker...