Just purchased a 65 fastback.

65Coupe289 · May 17, 2004

Hello all, I have recently acquired my second 65 mustang, a fastback. It was originally a 200/3-spd but somewhere along the line it was replaced with 5-lug axles, a toploader 4-speed, and a warmed up 289. The only problem is the car has been sitting for the last 13 years in a mans garage. He has only put 14 miles on the car since 1991, as the title proved. It runs, drives, and it is in pretty nice condition. There are only two problems.

1. The car is easy to start when cold. After the first time it has ran though it refuses to start unless let time to cool. It will turn over slowly and then quit. The battery is good, and I replaced the solenoid to + wire and the solenoid to starter wire with no chages in starting. When running, the motor runs pretty good. The car is definetly fast with the 4 speed and the warmed up 289. Anyway, what would make the car so hard to start like that?

2. Here is my second question. When running, the car spews out gray smoke pretty bad. Not noticeable while driving, but sit somewhere for more than a few seconds and everyone knows somethings wrong with your car. I'm thinking it's the rings. Is there any way to check that? I just changed the oil and filter yesterday. I took out #1 plug to find it to be black as all hell, so i'm guessing it's burning oil. What should I do?

Thanks for any/all of your help. It is greatly appreciated.

65fastback2+2 · May 17, 2004

1. starter gets overheated, my 65 fb did this too, i hated getting gas cuz it took forever to restart it.

2. sounds like rings, pull the heads and replace em :-D

fastcoupe68 · May 17, 2004

Do a leakdown test on each cylinder. It could be your valve stem seals. this is alot cheaper to fix then replacing your rings. I would do the leakdown test first. Also how do you know your battery is good, it could have a cell going bad. Replace the selonoid, recheck all your connections exspecially your ground. If this does not work replace your starter.

65fastback2+2 · May 17, 2004

fastcoupe68 said:
Do a leakdown test on each cylinder. It could be your valve stem seals. this is alot cheaper to fix then replacing your rings. I would do the leakdown test first.

unless they are REALLY bad valve stem seals usually just smoke on startup, rings smoke running

fastcoupe68 · May 17, 2004

65fastback2+2 said:
unless they are REALLY bad valve stem seals usually just smoke on startup, rings smoke running

He said that it is not noticable when driving, that means its running doesnt it? Wont hurt to do a leakdown test though. Or he can just tear the motor apart and re ring it or just rebuild the whole freaking thing, I would do the leakdown test first, but what do I know?

fastcoupe68 · May 17, 2004

65fastback2+2 said:
1. starter gets overheated, my 65 fb did this too, i hated getting gas cuz it took forever to restart it.

2. sounds like rings, pull the heads and replace em :-D

And lets not fix this problem with the starter, just dont by gas. Yeah there is some good advice

65Coupe289 · May 17, 2004

Well, it still smokes while driving, it just isnt to the point where you can see smoke pouring from the tailpipes...but once you stop is when the smoke becomes obvious.

The battery is brand new, that's why im ruling out the battery as a possible problem. I don't know how the starter could get overheated so fast, but I suppose it is possible. I could probably just buy a heat shield or maybe fabricate one if it doesnt seem to hard. I'll have to go out and look tomorrow and see what I could come up with.

As far as the compression test, I will be doing this tomorrow night. I have a compression tester so I'll get the readings and let you guys know.

fastcoupe68 · May 17, 2004

By the way 65 coupe Good luck with your new car I hope you enjoy it.

65fastback2+2 · May 17, 2004

fastcoupe68 said:
He said that it is not noticable when driving, that means its running doesnt it? Wont hurt to do a leakdown test though. Or he can just tear the motor apart and re ring it or just rebuild the whole freaking thing, I would do the leakdown test first, but what do I know?

leakdown test is fine. im just answering the guys questions per what i know and what he said

When running, the car spews out gray smoke pretty bad.

65fastback2+2 · May 17, 2004

65Coupe289 said:
The battery is brand new, that's why im ruling out the battery as a possible problem. I don't know how the starter could get overheated so fast, but I suppose it is possible. I could probably just buy a heat shield or maybe fabricate one if it doesnt seem to hard. I'll have to go out and look tomorrow and see what I could come up with.

alot of guys just buy a new starter for a newer stang, it bolts right up to a 289/302

fastcoupe68 · May 17, 2004

A compression test is different than a leakdown test but thats a good start. If your numbers average on the low side than you know the rings are the culprit.

65Coupe289 · May 17, 2004

fastcoupe68 said:
Or he can just tear the motor apart and re ring it or just rebuild the whole freaking thing,

I really hope it does not come to that. I have the experience and time to do it, but I don't have the money to rebuild the motor. I really hope my rings arent bad. Just have to wait until I do the compression test tomorrow I suppose.

65Coupe289 · May 17, 2004

fastcoupe68 said:
A compression test is different than a leakdown test

That I did not know. Could you explain how to perform a leakdown test?

fastcoupe68 · May 17, 2004

Good luck with it I also hope it is something simple. It could also be because it has sat for a long time and driving might help this problem by itself but that could be wishful thinking.

Ronstang · May 18, 2004

You can do a leak down test if you like and all but from your description it simply sounds like it is time for a rebuild. You can change out the vavlve seals on the car for pretty cheap and see what happens but I think the rings are gone.

SandSprite · May 18, 2004

The starter problem could also be a bad ground. My 65 FB did the same thing when I got it. We intially thought it was the starter, but a new one did the same thing, so we though it was heat soak. It turned out that the cable that grounds the engine to the body was MIA. Started OK when cold, but would barely crank when hot. A simple cable fixed the problem.

PoliceInterceptor · May 18, 2004

A leak down test you introduce compressed air into the cylinder and a guage measures the percentage of leakage.

When doing your compression test do a wet test as well. After you do all the cylinders normally. go back and do them again but add some oil to the cylinder beforehand. Use an old fassioned hand pump oil can and try to add about the same amount to each cylinder.

Gray smoke? What color gray? Black smoke is mixture, white antifreeze. and blue oil.

What are the "warmups" what carb, intake, cam and so forth is it running.

OH, its also possible that the timing is too advanced on the starting. I'd run through a good tune on it before I tore into the motor too far.

Congrats on the new purchase.

65Coupe289 · May 18, 2004

Well I can't give you the specifics on the motor as I don't know myself. As I stated before, the 200 was replaced with the 289 somewhere down the line. I don't know what the motor is out of, how long its been in there, how many miles are on it, etc. All I know is that the intake is Edelbrock, and the carb is a holley 4v. It has moroso wires also. That's all that I really know about the motor. I could go out and get some numbers off of the block and heads or whatever if that would help clarify my motor combination or not but I don't know. The smoke is gray. Not black, not white. It smokes all the time, but it is much more noticeable when the car is not moving, obviously.

sand, I will look for a ground to the motor and body when i go out to work on it. Are there any specific locations they would/should be? If they aren't there, where should I put one? Thanks.

PoliceInterceptor · May 18, 2004

You might want to post the list number off of the carb. It is on the front of the choke air horn. should look like 0-1850-2 or 0-3310-11 the munbers below that would be the date code.

Holley carbs can blow power valves from backfires (most of them anyway) and it is quite possible it is just running very rich. Does the smoke have any odor to it?

Compression numbers would be a help in diagnosing too.

65Coupe289 · May 18, 2004

Well between school and work today I didn't get any time to really work on the car any. I just got home a little while ago, gotta take my shower and get to bed, so I plan on getting the numbers and do the compression test tomorrow. I'll try to get as much information as I can for you guys, so that you can accurately diagnose my problem. Many thanks to those who have helped so far, it is greatly appreciated.

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