KB 1.7 KIT Dizzy advance

m0l0 · Jul 3, 2007

KB 1.5 KIT Dizzy advance

I have a friend who has a 95 with the KB 1.5 @ 5 psi , he replaced the distributor but he didnt take note on the dizzy timming, so he puts the new one and we backed off the timming all the way to 2 degrees, but he says that the car is now a complete dog i drive it and yes its a complete dog. any one knows what KB says to stock kit of total advance on the dizzy?

Ohh and another question i cant find wich kind of oil the KB uses , its not low on oil but when the time to change it will come we would like to know that oil , i´ve had read that recomendation per 03 cobra users is Syntetic Motor oil 50w, but i am not so sure

Thanks in advance!

urban96 · Jul 3, 2007

was spout in or out when u set timing?

m0l0 · Jul 3, 2007

Spout was off the car, base time was set to 2 degrees

SVT3183 · Jul 3, 2007

i'm not not sure if i'm reading your post corretly but you should have 8* base and back off the total timing depending on his a/f ratio and fuel octane

m0l0 · Jul 3, 2007

SVT3183 said:
i'm not not sure if i'm reading your post corretly but you should have 8* base and back off the total timing depending on his a/f ratio and fuel octane

Unfortunately his car dosnt have either a wideband and a tweecer, so the spark tables are 100% stock with this in mind he is running 26.00 degrees of total advance ( T4M0 ) minus the 8 we backed off the dizzy this would make 18 of total advance on full load + boost wich to me is about right on a 5 psi engine, of course all of this following the normal calculation ( for each psi of boost back the timming 1.5 degrees ). he is runing 93 octane, but since i am giving him advice i would not like to hear any knock on his engine and be the one what will blow his engine if we put more advance.

EDIT :

His car is 100% stock besides the KB, his fuel pressure reads 70 psi at 5 psi of boost , so i think he is absolutely no near to be lean ( besides we all know that T4M0 is pig rich ) but who knows without a WB.. i just wanted to know per KB instructions on a 5 psi kit how much the base timing should be

final5-0 · Jul 4, 2007

Two things to talk about here

When you look at CBAZA spark tables, the values you see are only that
value if the dizzy is at 10. Anything > or < 10 is added or subtracted
from those values. We are talking with the pcm controlling the spark.

Now ... about that pig rich t4m0 pcm

I've yet to see one like that

My findings have shown them to be just the opposite

The Cobra j4j1 is a bit fatter ... but ... I'd not call it pig rich

You don't have to search too hard to see many members first time on the
dyno rollers was cut short due to lean conditions.

The same could be said for the many GT peeps crying about ping you have
seen on these sites over the years.

btw ... I'm talking about stock or close to stock. A combo that still runs
19's and the OEM meter.

I'm not saying you've not run across some that were setup fat
I just ain't seen any like that

Any info you could share would be great

Grady

urban96 · Jul 4, 2007

what injectors?

m0l0 · Jul 4, 2007

urban96 said:
what injectors?

100% Stock 19 Lbs Inj, Stock Maf , Stock Headers , Stock TB

Grady:

I saw on my combo that i have to adjust the stock maf table to -10%, -15% ( T4M0 Maf table into J4J1 ) and that just to reach the 11.9 AFR that the J4J1 commands , that would be like 10:1 AFR on stock MAF Table, so for a 100% NA i consider that is pig rich , of course that this was all done to my 30´s so maybe stockers 19 on a 100% stock engine maybe thet have trouble keeping up and thats why Ford enrichened the MAF + 11.9 on AFR table, i didnt have the tweecer neither the WB on my car when it was stock

And the timing is substracted from the 10 base on the dizzy check the stock T4M0 total advance on the top load, the EEC knows that the dizzy is at 10 and adds 16-17 of spark, so if we put the dizzy on 2 that would be 18-19 top

Does the KB kit came with any manual ?? where it says what should be the dizzy base timing??

final5-0 · Jul 4, 2007

m0l0 said:
Grady:

Does the KB kit came with any manual ?? where it says what should be the dizzy base timing??

I would have no idea but seems like you could Google up an answer

And the timing is substracted from the 10 base on the dizzy check the stock T4M0 total advance on the top load, the EEC knows that the dizzy is at 10 and adds 16-17 of spark, so if we put the dizzy on 2 that would be 18-19 top

Makes sense to me

I saw on my combo that i have to adjust the stock maf table to -10%, -15% ( T4M0 Maf table into J4J1 ) and that just to reach the 11.9 AFR that the J4J1 commands , that would be like 10:1 AFR on stock MAF Table, so for a 100% NA i consider that is pig rich , of course that this was all done to my 30´s so maybe stockers 19 on a 100% stock engine maybe thet have trouble keeping up and thats why Ford enrichened the MAF + 11.9 on AFR table, i didnt have the tweecer neither the WB on my car when it was stock

A few thoughts

First let me say my following comments are based upon the fact I
had a Wide Band to CONFIRM my tuning methods were SAFE :Word:

Second ... My comments here are for NA ... not ... Forced Induction

No matter if talking GT or Cobra .....
You can't blame Ford for wanting to make higher load/rpm conditions
a bit fat as it helps to protect things.

Looking at an OEM fuel table, you obviously see that by the fact
the commanded values dip as the rpm's climb in the high load rows.

Of course ... those 30's made things no longer accurate

My procedure of WOT fuel tuning with the j4j1 is to do three things first

1) Dial back the total spark a good bit ... maybe 26-28
2) Kill the high speed fuel enrichment
3) Setup the high load row fuel table fat ... like 12 to 1

Then ... Tweec the meters curve from the point of no seen Closed Loop
operation and above in such a fashion that the command values in the
fuel table match the WB values during WOT conditions.

That allows you to simply choose your WOT ratio by filling in the cells
of the highest load row with the value of your choice.

Of course ... 12 to 1 is too fat & 26 spark ain't enough

You then just find what amount of fuel & spark your combo likes

Its gonna be somewhere in the range of .........
12.5 to 13.0 to 1.00 for fuel
and
32-38 degrees total spark

Obviously ... there are other methods ... but ... It worked for me

Grady

urban96 · Jul 4, 2007

those poor lil injectors are probably maxed way out. first thing i would do is get some bigger ones, atleast 36lbs.

after that u can get rid of the FMU and run stock fuel pressure. 70PSI is crazy and probably causing the driveability issues your having

also a custom tune VIA sct chip or tweecer or whatever u prefer will go a long way and make it feel like a whole new beast

if u choose a tweecer and want to self tune, GET A WIDEBAND, 300-350 is worth not blowing up your motor

m0l0 · Jul 4, 2007

urban96 said:
those poor lil injectors are probably maxed way out. first thing i would do is get some bigger ones, atleast 36lbs.

+1 I have told him that those injectors+maf+fmu is no the correct way to do a KB

Per my advice he will get a 80 mm maf + 42lbs (He is planning a H/C/Headers later) + Tweecer RT+ WB

urban96 said:
after that u can get rid of the FMU and run stock fuel pressure. 70PSI is crazy and probably causing the driveability issues your having

No Driveability problems the 70 psi kicks when the FMU gets boost

urban96 said:
also a custom tune VIA sct chip or tweecer or whatever u prefer will go a long way and make it feel like a whole new beast

yes , i will make his tune when he gets all the fuel support ( i have to study a little more on the tweecer on a blown combo, but i have a good background based on my combo+loooots of reading and calibrations readed, but is no joke so i will be as carefull as always)

urban96 said:
if u choose a tweecer and want to self tune, GET A WIDEBAND, 300-350 is worth not blowing up your motor

Yes indeed on my case there is just a little problem .... i am just missing the KB+42lbs+MAF on top of my combo

final5-0 said:
I would have no idea but seems like you could Google up an answer

I have searched but i cant find a KB installation manual on google for 5.0 , only modulars or other car brands but no real KB Manual only pictures.

bso · Jul 5, 2007

http://www.schwarzmann.com/ Goto to the garage section

m0l0 · Jul 5, 2007

bso said:
http://www.schwarzmann.com/ Goto to the garage section

Absolutely awsome that´s what i was looking

bso · Jul 5, 2007

Follow this link for the Kenne Bell non-mentioned install advice. Don knows his stuff when it comes to KB install and tuning.
http://www.lasotaracing.com/tech.html

KB 1.7 KIT Dizzy advance

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