Kenne Bell, FTW.. Decisive Victory

[1fast03pony]

I kept the saleen heat exchanger which is twice the thickness of the KB and has 2 fans, but I have the Gords on the way

Where did you get the Gords?

 

[StratGT]

I got the Gords Ford HE directly from Gord at www.gordsford.com . He makes brackets especially for a GT for a extra $25.00. It fit perfectly and cools my Allen blower really well. Look on his website for pictures comparing it to other HE's.

A SCT MAF is perfect for whoever was asking. I have personally seen 36lb injectors max out and if not maxed out they run too high within their duty cycle, the SCT that tuned my Allen blower strongly recommended 42lb'ers.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I got the Gords Ford HE directly from Gord at www.gordsford.com . He makes brackets especially for a GT for a extra $25.00. It fit perfectly and cools my Allen blower really well. Look on his website for pictures comparing it to other HE's.

A SCT MAF is perfect for whoever was asking. I have personally seen 36lb injectors max out and if not maxed out they run too high within their duty cycle, the SCT that tuned my Allen blower strongly recommended 42lb'ers.

How did you ever make out with you Allen Kit? Get all the bugs out you and I talked about?

 

[QU!CK]

This is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't the 2.1L create a little more torque than the 1.7L at the same RPM?


-J

 

[StratGT]

How did you ever make out with you Allen Kit? Get all the bugs out you and I talked about?

The bugs were minimal. I upgraded the injectors, MAF, HE, and added a JLT CAI. Luckily I sold all the old/ original AED parts for some good money so the upgrades didn't cost too much. I installed it in my garage with my brother, turned the key and it started first turn. My car is a 2000GT with a Auto tranny and I made over 380rwtq from 2000rpm to 5000rpm and 368rwhp. Not bad for a Auto. Next step is a Lightning coolant pump and a Accufab TB and I'm getting rid of that power robbing mechanical coolant pump. The car flys!!

 

[merc123]

Off topic, but how is your car with the KB power and the 4.10s?

I was reading on the KB website and they give an equation for figuring S/C RPM's. It's something like (engine RPM * gear ratio) = S/C RPM's. They say you want to keep it under 18,000 for the S/C. So if you want a 5800 redline you have to have a 3.10 gear ratio. With 3.73's by that calculation you can only turn 4825 RPM's safely. I dunno though. They said that 3.73's are the best gear for the KB and that's what most recommend.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

This is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't the 2.1L create a little more torque than the 1.7L at the same RPM?


-J

Possibly, but I don't imagine levels would increase that significantly. After all, it's going to have be pullied to spin a little slower than the smaller blower because of it's physically larger size and as a result may not be as effective as the smaller unit at lower speeds.

Here's why.....Traditionally the trade off when employing the use of a larger blower is it’s more prone to the effects of leak down at lower, slower blower speeds due to the increased sealing length and surface area of the longer/larger lobes/rotors. Although over all volume with the larger unit is increases with each revolution, spinning the larger blower at the same RPM that you would the smaller blower would result in lesser initial boost levels than that of the smaller compressor because more air is getting by the surface gaps between the intermeshing screws. In theory….one revolution should be equal to the volume of 1.7…2.1…(or whatever capacity the unit is) cubic liters of air, but because of leakage, friction, different air densities at different temperatures, etc, real world conditions don’t allow this to happen.

So, to counter the effect of the initial “lag” so to speak, one would need to increase the blower RPM of the bigger unit in order to overcome said issues and start making boost figures at lower engine RPM, that are on par with a smaller blower. This is accomplished by switching out to a smaller driven pulley size to alter the blower ratio and make the compressor itself spin up faster at any give engine RPM, which in turn will allow boost levels to come on sooner. The down side to this is that although the pulley swap allows boost to now come on sooner at a lower engine RPM like it did before with the smaller blower, it also as a side effect increases low speed discharge temps due to increased friction from the now faster spinning lobes/rotors. Not only that, but blower speed has also increased all the way across the board....not just down low to overcome the initial leakage. This leads to an increase in over all air flow levels at all RPM right to peek. Great for making power, but not so great when you're trying to keep the stock bottom end in its happy place. This is why it’s not recommended to run a big blower on a small horsepower budget. Running any blower below or past its efficiency range is a waste of potential….with respect to either the blower itself of the rest of the combination. This is the reason one size does not fit all and bigger is not always better.

That being said, Kenne Bell claims a new rotor profile will help increase over all efficiency levels some over their previous design, which will in turn reduce low speek leakage and friction......but only real world testing will determine this for certain.

The bugs were minimal. I upgraded the injectors, MAF, HE, and added a JLT CAI. Luckily I sold all the old/ original AED parts for some good money so the upgrades didn't cost too much. I installed it in my garage with my brother, turned the key and it started first turn. My car is a 2000GT with a Auto tranny and I made over 380rwtq from 2000rpm to 5000rpm and 368rwhp. Not bad for a Auto. Next step is a Lightning coolant pump and a Accufab TB and I'm getting rid of that power robbing mechanical coolant pump. The car flys!!

Great to hear.

 

[00s281sc368]

I was reading on the KB website and they give an equation for figuring S/C RPM's. It's something like (engine RPM * gear ratio) = S/C RPM's. They say you want to keep it under 18,000 for the S/C. So if you want a 5800 redline you have to have a 3.10 gear ratio. With 3.73's by that calculation you can only turn 4825 RPM's safely. I dunno though. They said that 3.73's are the best gear for the KB and that's what most recommend.

S/C rpm is directly linked to engine rpm and has nothing to do with gear ratio

 

[QU!CK]

Possibly, but I don't imagine levels would increase that significantly. After all, it's going to have be pullied to spin a little slower than the smaller blower because of it's physically larger size and as a result may not be as effective as the smaller unit at lower speeds.

Here's why.....Traditionally the trade off when employing the use of a larger blower is it’s more prone to the effects of leak down at lower, slower blower speeds due to the increased sealing length and surface area of the longer/larger lobes/rotors. Although over all volume with the larger unit is increases with each revolution, spinning the larger blower at the same RPM that you would the smaller blower would result in lesser initial boost levels than that of the smaller compressor because more air is getting by the surface gaps between the intermeshing screws. In theory….one revolution should be equal to the volume of 1.7…2.1…(or whatever capacity the unit is) cubic liters of air, but because of leakage, friction, different air densities at different temperatures, etc, real world conditions don’t allow this to happen.

So, to counter the effect of the initial “lag” so to speak, one would need to increase the blower RPM of the bigger unit in order to overcome said issues and start making boost figures at lower engine RPM, that are on par with a smaller blower. This is accomplished by switching out to a smaller driven pulley size to alter the blower ratio and make the compressor itself spin up faster at any give engine RPM, which in turn will allow boost levels to come on sooner. The down side to this is that although the pulley swap allows boost to now come on sooner at a lower engine RPM like it did before with the smaller blower, it also as a side effect increases low speed discharge temps due to increased friction from the now faster spinning lobes/rotors. Not only that, but blower speed has also increased all the way across the board....not just down low to overcome the initial leakage. This leads to an increase in over all air flow levels at all RPM right to peek. Great for making power, but not so great when you're trying to keep the stock bottom end in its happy place. This is why it’s not recommended to run a big blower on a small horsepower budget. Running any blower below or past its efficiency range is a waste of potential….with respect to either the blower itself of the rest of the combination. This is the reason one size does not fit all and bigger is not always better.

That being said, Kenne Bell claims a new rotor profile will help increase over all efficiency levels some over their previous design, which will in turn reduce low speek leakage and friction......but only real world testing will determine this for certain.

Excellent breakdown thanks!


-J

 

[Torinalth]

granted i am not an expert, but i do think there are a few things that are not directly applied to KB in this instance, feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

first off, the blower RPM speed is a gear ratio... however its not your rear end gear ratio, its the pully "gear" size by the engine RPM... so... engine RPM*blower ratio = blower rpm... so 6000 engine rpm on a 2.00 blower pully would net an rpm of 12000 (KBs max redline is 18000 incase you cared). hope that helped.

gearbanger has a lot of good information. however, in this case with the big bore i dont think its quite rite. to my understanding in my reading of the blower its the same drilled out aluminum ingot as the standard.. the profile is just changed... meaning its cut deeper, and wider, and longer stretch before it makes a full rotation over the rotor circumference (sp).

as said before its just more air being moved in the same size... the blower its self is not any bigger then the 1.7, its all in the rotor design. more lobes on both rotors +2 and +1 i think.... and a deeper "more aggressive" cut. theorhetically it has the possability of leaking, however i think its kinda a moot point with this as the more lobes decrease effective surface area for each seal point, while the deeper channel cuts prevent a total loss of displacement due to the increased number of lobes.

maybe its me... but i dont see it having seal issues that would be any more then the 1.7. again, without testing it i could be incorrect.... but there are the claims of people having more low end power on the same boost level, and of course larger pullies making the same boost as the 1.7 with a smaller pulley... this means the blower is spinning slower and thus less drag/friction/heat. so, more efficient. i think one of the principal things with this is that the 2.1 does not increase rotating mass over the 1.7, which is where teh increased efficiency comes from.

as i said before i am no expert... but this is just how i see it.

Torinalth

 

[1fast03pony]

S/C rpm is directly linked to engine rpm and has nothing to do with gear ratio

This is what I was thinking. I wasnt sure how the blower could over rev if the engine is still revving to the same RPM, just faster. Its not like the blower is connected to the rear end.
The pullies are not spinning any faster on the motor than with 3.27s, because the engine RPM is not exceeding its redline. All the rear end gears do is multiply the torque from the motor to the wheels- my inclination is that the engine revs faster and does less work. The engine is not revving any higher, thus the blower wont either. Please correct me if Im wrong.

Slightly off the topic being discussed, but Im ordering the KB today (after saying this for a few days im calling at 2pm today).

What else, besides this kit should I order. I am heeding the advice of some guys on here and grabbing some 42lb injectors and an SVT focus pump. Ill hold out on the upgraded HE for now, but I want to get a 90mm Lightning MAF. However, I dont think this will fit the stock intake tube. What intake tube can I use with the 90mm lightning MAF, and will this Kenne bell chip be of any use with these upgraded components, since its calibrated to the injectors that come with the kit??

So many questions, but I hope to have them sorted out before I plink down 6 grand.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Ill hold out on the upgraded HE for now, but I want to get a 90mm Lightning MAF. However, I dont think this will fit the stock intake tube. What intake tube can I use with the 90mm lightning MAF, and will this Kenne bell chip be of any use with these upgraded components, since its calibrated to the injectors that come with the kit??

So many questions, but I hope to have them sorted out before I plink down 6 grand.

If you buy Kenne Bells "Big Tube" kit, the larger Mass Air Meter and intake tube are supplied for you and the chip is pre-calibrated for their useage.
http://kennebell.net/accessories/2V-InletComponents/2V_InletComponents.htm

 

[1fast03pony]

Thanks, that seems like the easy route to go. What about the injectors, will the MAF be calibrated to them? or should I just stick with the ones that come with the kit.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Thanks, that seems like the easy route to go. What about the injectors, will the MAF be calibrated to them? or should I just stick with the ones that come with the kit.

The injectors aren't calibrated to the Mass Air Meter, they're calibrated to the ECU. You'll have to have the car tuned afterwards to the larger injector size.