Late-model driveline swap in stages?

66 BLAKE 96

Native Texican
Founding Member
Feb 16, 2001
4,810
0
0
Cowtown
Just going over the approximate cost projections for the eventual T-5/EFI swap in the future, and wondering if I might be able to make baby steps toward the final goal. :shrug:

Here’s the basis for the idea: The greatest expense involved in the swap is the fuel injection parts and wiring. Considering the real priorities (the imprortant stuff is the T-5 (overdrive) and a nice, new, long block) having EFI is the icing on the cake. So what if I saved the EFI for later, and swapped only the long block and tranny? I could always retrofit the EFI later, right?

Using round numbers, the EFI swap would cost approximately $1,500 for parts and wiring (I know when I’m beat, and I NEED the custom set up wiring harness). The T-5 swap itself is only +/- $600.
I’m thinking that I can get a 5.0 roller long block including stock (ported) E7 heads for a very reasonable price and use the vintage timing chain cover and oil pan. This would also eliminate the need for any specialty T-5 swap adapters for mating to a vintage 289 block, and it would already be set up for 50 oz. balance flywheel and latemodel clutch.

And now for the questions:
• Would I have to have a custom gear setup (brass) on an old school distributor to work with the 5.0 roller cam until I switch to the stock 5.0 roller distributor when I get the computer in there later?

• Serpentine pulleys. I’d really like to go ahead with that setup while I’m at it. Are there any stumbling blocks to look out for in this combo? I would prefer to mess with the electric fuel pump later, so I’d need the vintange timing chain cover that retains the fuel pump boss. Am I missing any other factors in this area?

• Exhaust issues with E7 heads? I’d like to avoid having big problems with header selection.

• Have I missed anything?

Thanks y’all for reading this novel. I know I’ve seen answers to many, if not all of these questions here, but over the years, I just don’t remember conclusively what the right answers are and the search function isn’t yielding too much.
 
1. use a bronze or steel cam gear with the roller cam. You will destroy your engine if you use a cast-iron cam gear with the steel roller cam. Dists made for flat-tappet cams typically come with cast-iron cam gears.

2. You will need a reverse-rotation (5.0 style) water pump for a serp setup. Plan to swap it for your old style V-belt pump if you have that now.

3. no exhaust issues I can think of over older heads.

I did the C4 to T5 about 6 months ago...you are on the right track: I specifically got my stroker balanced to 50oz so I could use a late-model bell and flywheel without any funky 28oz issues. You avoid all the 'adapters' and other Band-Aids that way. PM me if you need any other advice.
 
Thanks LMan!

I knew I was on the right track with the cam gear. Just good to see it re-affirmed.

Thanks for the reverse-rotation water pump reminder. Ya think that will jive with the old timing chain cover OK? Aw, and that reminds me, I already have a Sanden A/C compressor, but its setup for V-belt. I wonder how involved that will be to switch to serpentine?

Thanks for the great/quick reply, and I look forward to more input y'all might have. :)
 
Stages - absolutely. But, you will be hard pressed to do the T-5 swap for ~$600. Here is the cost breakdown...

T-5 Transmission $???? (depends on new/used - I picked up a add to the following)

Pedals $155 (I purchased these fully restored with pads)
Transmission Cross Member $85 (new)
Hurst Pro 5.0 Shifter $100 (used)
Clutch and Pressure Plate $250 (new)
Shorten Driveshaft $100 (labor)
Cable Clutch $179 (Mustang Steve)

This assumes you already have these items:
Bell Housing $50
Flywheel $75
Block Plate $25
Fork $10

It is not likely, but it is possible you may have interference with your exhaust that may need modifications.
 
66P51GT said:
Stages - absolutely. But, you will be hard pressed to do the T-5 swap for ~$600. Here is the cost breakdown...


Cool, Thanks!

I already have the pedals, I hadn't considered the clutch/pressure plate though. Thats a nice price on the Cross Member. Do you have a source for that?
 
WHAT???? T-5 ????? I thought you were gonna be the next inductee into 6 speed club (and not one of those fake T-56's). ;)

Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the 5.0 roller motors can be set up with a mechanical fuel pump. IIRC the cams do not have the lobes to run a mech pump. Some one correct me if I am wrong
 
Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the 5.0 roller motors can be set up with a mechanical fuel pump. IIRC the cams do not have the lobes to run a mech pump. Some one correct me if I am wrong

this is true, but i believe you can swap the longer dowel and the lobe from any early model cam in, the dowel hole should be in place already, if not you might consider swapping in a good electric pusher pump, they can usually be had for under 100 bucks, try a carter street electric pump mounted by the tank. another thing you might consider for the water pump, that i was just recently informed of myself, apparently e'brock is making a reverse rotation pump with a passenger side outlet so it will be compatible with your stock radiator. there should be a clutch available for the sanden compressor for the serpentine setup, probably have to do some searching in the parts books if the comp. itself is not for a late model stang (mounts, etc.) motor mounts should be the same as what you have now so that won't be a problem. oh and i wouldn't advise using the bronze gear, ford or ford racing now sells the correct gear for an early distributor in a roller motor, try calling the local ford dealer first, it will probabaly cheaper from them
 
HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE EDELBROCK FUEL INJECTION BLAKE?.IT IS A COMPLETE READY TO RUN UNIT WIRING AND ALL AND U CAN CHOOSE INJECTORS U NEED WHEN U BUY IT.AND U CAN BOLT IT ON ANY ENGINE U WANT.
 
gp001 said:
WHAT???? T-5 ????? I thought you were gonna be the next inductee into 6 speed club (and not one of those fake T-56's). ;)

Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the 5.0 roller motors can be set up with a mechanical fuel pump. IIRC the cams do not have the lobes to run a mech pump. Some one correct me if I am wrong

LOL, I'll leave the overkill to the crazy men such as yourself. :p
Good info on the roller/mech fuel pump info. Maybe I should just go ahead with the electric fuel pump. :shrug:

bnickel said:
another thing you might consider for the water pump, that i was just recently informed of myself, apparently e'brock is making a reverse rotation pump with a passenger side outlet so it will be compatible with your stock radiator. there should be a clutch available for the sanden compressor for the serpentine setup, probably have to do some searching in the parts books if the comp. itself is not for a late model stang (mounts, etc.) motor mounts should be the same as what you have now so that won't be a problem. oh and i wouldn't advise using the bronze gear, ford or ford racing now sells the correct gear for an early distributor in a roller motor, try calling the local ford dealer first, it will probabaly cheaper from them

That is way cool about the e'brock reverse water pump. I hadn't heard about that, and it'd be a cool solution. :nice: I figure the compressor clutch shouldn't be too big a deal. Thanks for the heads up on the dizzy gear too.


INDSKYS said:
HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE EDELBROCK FUEL INJECTION BLAKE?.IT IS A COMPLETE READY TO RUN UNIT WIRING AND ALL AND U CAN CHOOSE INJECTORS U NEED WHEN U BUY IT.AND U CAN BOLT IT ON ANY ENGINE U WANT.

Nah, that system is crazy expensive and I haven't heard a whole lot of good stuff about it. The factory '89-'93 EFI is a proven winner with alot of moddability.

MrBobMarley said:
What do you think about going with a DSS or CHP long block? Or do you prefer to go ahead and build up yourself?
Oh man, I'd love to. I'd rather leave the build to an experienced engine builder, but a DSS or CHP is likely a bit out of my price range, and probably more than I need. A stock 5.0 short block (built locally by someone that ain't me) is pretty stout as well as affordable, and I've heard about the magic that can be done with well ported stock E7 heads. There will come a day where I can afford to throw many thousands of $$ at an engine (DSS, CHP). In the mean time, I can make do with something alot more affordable.

66P51GT said:
Muchas gracias!

You guys rock. Thanks again for the lowdown.
 
Hey guys, sorry to go grave digging here, but I got tons of good info in this thread and I can't let this thread dissapear into the ether. I just scored a wrecked 85 GT, so this info could get useful really fast. :D
 
Blake, I was going to tell you to search for a wrecked gt. But it sounds like you found one. I came across an 88 for $900. the front end was bashed but it ran. When we pulled it off the trailer my horsesbutts friends were smoking the tires. But I got every thing I need so I thought it was a good deal. Good luck and have fun.
 
bnickel said:
hey blakey, does that gt still have the front seats? if so and you wanna part with them, i've got first dibs :D

well, you have the car so what are you gonna do with it? details boy, details we need lots of 'em. :D

Seats are there, though they seem to be a popular item, as I have two others interested. I'll put you on the list though. :nice:

I'm yanking the engine and tranny (2000 miles on the engine and clutch) for the fastback, and everything else that might be salvagable is being sold. I just wish there was a (good, easy, cheap, etc...) way to adapt the rear end into mine. Unfortunately the rear is a weak link in my car, and may want to go south with the added power from the 5.0.

I happen to have a buddy that has a fast, fun 85 GT, but the interior needs alot of help, so he may benefit alot from this poor wrecked GT.
 
hey blake, you have an 8" rear right? all you need is a traction lok diff forit and it'll handle anything a stock 5.0 will throw at it. go to the wrecking yard and look for any v-6 or v-8 mustang II's and v-6 pinto's even mavericks and granadas sometimes have the 8" trac-lok. a lot of the ones with the trac-lok will have the optional 3.55 gears too. if you decide you're going to need a 9" rear i still have my versailles rear with 3.70 gears (non trac-lok) brand new rotors (still in the box) rebuilt calipers, all the brake cables and hoses, etc. fresh paint, completely detailed and once i get new axle bearings pressed on it will be ready to drop in. pm if you are interested and we can discuss price, etc.