Latest problem...won't start.

Bottomlesspit

I started the longest tech thread in the known uni
Founding Member
Jan 1, 1999
2,636
1
48
Del Rio, TX
I'm getting desperate now, being stranded and having to bum rides to work.
Parked the 92 hatch in the garage Thursday evening after getting home from work. Didn't fiddle with anything all night. Friday morning early I get in and try to start it up. It turns over fine but will not start. All electrical stuff seems to work fine. I can hear the fuel pump prime when I turn the key.
I did the visual check inside and out and nothing looks out of place.
My main concern is what might keep the engine from firing up that could be located in the wiring inside the car. That is where i have been working lately. I have been going through all the wiring around and under the steering column, along with behind the radio area. I have all the console pulled out, along with the under dash panels. There are a lot of wires hanging, many that I have yet to find where they might have connected. A previous owner had hacked in an alarm system that included door locks and who knows what else. None of it worked right so I have been removing all of it...tons and tons of wires, control boxes. Basically a huge mess. Up to parking it on Thursday everything except the door locks still worked fine. I didn't mess with any of it that night. I can't imagine what could have changed after shutting down the motor. Like I said, it turns over like normal.
I know I have to start chasing the basics, spark to the plugs and all.
Do any of you have some suggestions or ideas of some connections that might impact this, especially of things like fuses and such under the dash?
This is quite frustrating. The plugs, coil, cap, TFI, are all fairly new and don't appear to be at fault. I suspect something inside with the wiring, but who knows?
Any hints, suggestions are greatly appreciated. Tracing the wires is nothing short of a nightmare since this hacker spliced into the stock wire bundles everywhere. Piss poor job if I ever saw one.
The engine compartment alone took me over 3 months to rewire back into shape. Bare wires everywhere, now the same thing inside.
UGGGGGG,
Ken
 
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Ken,

As you know, Jrichker's list is the go-to reference. I'm sure you already have it printed out.

I'm afraid that we'd need a little more info about which systems are failing. Exempli gratia: knowing if you have spark and inj pulsing would help because that rules out quite a bit under the dash (because we know current for those systems is egressing the cabin).

After that, the first place I'd look is the ignition switch itself [and it's wiring]. I mention the switch because it's fragile. Mine had been replaced by the PO. It worked fine till I touched it one day; then it started to act up. And since alarm installers love hacking into the ignition-column wires, that's where I'd be after spark and inj pulsing are checked.

Boy, otherwise I really don't know what to say. You have my admiration for tacking such big tasks on your DD. I have always had to dissect small portions of rat's-nest wiring or it can get overwhelming and confusing.

Good luck with it, and as an aside I hope your arm is feeling better. :nice:
 
Thanks hissin,
yeah, my arm is feeling a bit better. It has been very sore since that good twist from the drill.
I understand guys here will need more info in order to help me. I will get it as soon as I can. I was just hoping for some basic ideas to check that I might have overlooked. I knew my 93 inside and out, but this hatch is really hacked up badly. I was thinking about the ignition switch too. It hadn't acted up before, but I do know they can go bad easily enough. Would that just kill spark to the engine alone? Can running my code reader be of any help? I doubt it, but I'll try anything. I have so many loose wires hanging by my feet it isn't funny. Real hack job. I'm pretty sure nothing shorted out though. Are there any fuses that could be involved? I can't think of any.
I'll keep searching.
Thanks again,
Ken
 
Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

Revised 26-Aug-2007 to add missing secondary ground on back of the engine.

All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. See paragraph 5A - a noid light will tell if the pip is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
E.) No ECC or computer power - ECC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
F.) No ECC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire with the switch in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position, then the fuse link is blown.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp fuse
H.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
J.) Computer
I.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

See the following links for wiring diagrams...

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 86 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167158.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 87 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8016715e.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 88 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167162.gif

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 89-90 cars http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8019595f.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 91-93 cars
http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195960.gif

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.
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If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector wiring.
The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.99 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.
 
Thanks JRichker...always a lot of reading from you! I can't believe how much I have let slip out of my mind after all I went through on that 93?! I knew all this by heart. Now I'm flopping like a fish out of water here.
I had to be out of town since Sat morning so I am just now getting on it. I do know for sure that there is NO voltage getting out of the coil. I'll back in from there up to that suspect ignition switch that the 10yr old ziptied to the column!
Thanks for the help,
Ken
 
Just an update....
After spending a zillion hours under the dash, following the above checklist, and testing all components, I gave up in disgust. I couldn't find anything other than the horrible snake nest of wires hanging from under the dash. I still have 4 wires I can't account for, along with a fabric covered wire/black 2 prong plug that goes up the steering column.
I came inside a few minutes ago pretty upset since I don't have a way to get to work in a few hours.
I turned around and went back out for one last look, and took a good look at the TFI module. It looked like the end with the plug was pulled out slightly from the base of the distributor. I pushed it back down, hooked up the battery and sure enough, it cranked up! Dang 10 yr old who messed everything else up obviously over torqed the mounting screws to where they pulled through the unit.
Looks like I'm back in business, at least for now. :nice:
If anyone knows what that fabric covered wire/plug bundle might be I'm open for guesses.
I'm thinking it might have something to do with the cruise control. I removed the airbag and don't think things are all there.
All I see is the center wheel nut, wires coming from the side switches that go up under a plastic cover that crosses the top of the steering column (top of the airbag slot) That's it. I don't remember what the clockspring looks like, so I bet it's missing. Maybe that's what the plug is for?
Sorry for the long post...it's late and i'm trying to get it all figured out. :bang:
Any help is greatly appreciated
Thanks to all of you.
Ken