Lets talk about brake systems

[Edbert]

I had another thread last week or so that gave excellent detail for master cylinder and booster options. I am still considering all my options for that, including the possibility of using the JMC solution and bypassing the power booster entirely. I know Mdjay has one and hope he'll post with the scoop on pedal pressure and such. I sort of hope that I keep the power booster since I detuned my cam selection (280h) to have enough vacuum for the booster and if I don't end up using one I'l be kicking myself, but that's another thread.


Back to the subject...I am fearfull of all the plumbing I will have to do and connector inconsitencies I'll have if I start swapping out 1967 (SSBC repro) parts with 1980's MkVII and 1990s Mustang stuff. There's the distro-block on the inner fender by the MC, then I'll have to insert my manual porp-valve, then there's another "thingie" above my rear axle that has one hard line coming in and onecoming out of it. Is that a residual pressure valve? I thought drums did not need those but it is left over from my rear-drum setup. Should I use it or bypass it now that I have converted to 12.2 discs?

If I use the JMC MC I wont have to install the Wilwood porp-valve. but what about the factory distro block?

 

[reenmachine]

Drums do indeed need the residual pressure valve, it is discs that typically do not. It keeps the shoes from retracting too far.

I'd lose the factory distribution block, run the rear line from the M/C through your manual adjustable proportioning valve and on back (lose the residual valve), and simply 'T' the front line out of the M/C to the sides.

 

[brianj5600]

I thought dual MCs means no prop valve. There is an adjustment in the linkage to provide bias.

 

[Edbert]

Dual chambered MCs do, dual MCs use a equalization bar than can be adjusted for bias.

I like to hear what you said Reen. Always been a proponent of the K I S S principle and was thinking of doing just that if it were feasible and reliable.

If I do not use the dist-block I'll lose the brake warning light. But I'm thinking that is minor since with 13s out front and 12.2s in back if one side gets too much pressure versus the other I'm agonna know about it.

So, dump the distro-block and the factory residual valve, that simplifies things. All I need now is a high capacity dual chamber MC that will accept my 1967 lines and I'm about done. once I fond the right flex hoses for the rear and figure out how to separate the factory flex hoses from 39 years of gunk.

 

[reenmachine]

All I need now is a high capacity dual chamber MC that will accept my 1967 lines and I'm about done.

http://www.reenmachine.com/wilwood_master_cylinder.php

 

[Edbert]

Which bore would be appropriate for a big-brake car that intends to use the factory (Bendix I beleive) booster? A bigger bore means more fluid gets moved thus more pressure...right?

 

[reenmachine]

Which bore would be appropriate for a big-brake car that intends to use the factory (Bendix I beleive) booster? A bigger bore means more fluid gets moved thus more pressure...right?

I recommend the 1.12" bore for power brake applications. The 1.00" works great for manual applications.

 

[Edbert]

Cool, and even better price! Any other parts like shafts/shims needed? This guy just bolts right up?

 

[Pbum5]

Have you considered a 1984 Mustang SVO Aluminum MC?
$24.00, Bolts right up and works great with my non-power 4-wheel disk setup. Not as pretty as the Willwood, but much less.

if you keep the stock dist. block, the warning light will not work properly because if you use it with 4 wheel discs you have to cap off the rear and run a Prop valve to the rear disks.
This will cause the warning light to come on and off a lot since it is getting fooled by the rear being capped off.

 

[Edbert]

Have you considered a 1984 Mustang SVO Aluminum MC?
$24.00, Bolts right up and works great with my non-power 4-wheel disk setup. Not as pretty as the Willwood, but much less.

if you keep the stock dist. block, the warning light will not work properly because if you use it with 4 wheel discs you have to cap off the rear and run a Prop valve to the rear disks.
This will cause the warning light to come on and off a lot since it is getting fooled by the rear being capped off.

Does the SVO MC allow the use of 67 lines, and do they exit on the fender side? Is fluid capacity the same as the Wilwood?

 

[reenmachine]

Pbum5 noted that that M/C is for non-power. You're using a booster, no?

 

[Edbert]

The SVO Mustangs used manual brakes...YIKES!

Yes, I am happy with non-power-steering, but I want power brakes, I handicapped my engine to have enough vacuum to run the bastige and I intend to keep it...LOL

 

[LMan]

The SVO Mustangs used manual brakes...YIKES!

I think he meant that PBum uses it in a manual-brake application. There were no manual-brake SVOs

You will need to put a prop valve in to adjust the rear discs. Remove the rear residual valve near the rear axle. Since the stock MC had a resid valve in it, I think the dist block was clean, ie, no valve there, but check sources to be sure.

Drive and adjust to taste

 

[5.0ina66]

AFAIK, the aluminum Mk7 MC is the same as the aluminum SVO MC. I was under the impression that the aluminum version of the SVO MC was either an urban legend or rare and very hard to get, which is why I mentioned the MK7 MC. The SVOs used power brakes, BTW.
HTH
--Kyle
PS: After further research, the SVO MC and MK7 MC are the same.

EDIT: There is no distinction made between the plastic Vs. Aluminum SVO MC though, but the suffix of the PNs are identical to the aluminum Mk7 MC.

 

[Pbum5]

Does the SVO MC allow the use of 67 lines, and do they exit on the fender side? Is fluid capacity the same as the Wilwood?

I think you can hook it up to a power booster, but you will have to check on that.

I don’t mind the non-power brakes. I actually prefer them. Not as hard as you might think and the have a “real” feel if that makes any sense.

The lines exit to the passenger side so you have to make new lines but it’s no big deal.

I don’t know how the fluid capacities match up between the Wilwood and the SVO but I can tell you it’s a lot bigger than the stock 4 drum MC I replaced.


Yup, the SVO MC and MK7 MC are the same.

 

[4MuscleMachines]

http://www.reenmachine.com/wilwood_master_cylinder.php

Reenmachine, (Edbert- FYI)


I have a 70 Boss 302 that has the dual JMC unit. I feel the pedal is way too hard even for being manual. I have the Wilwood six-piston brakes on the front and that is supposed to ease the effort in a manual system but its still too hard with very little travel. I will be looking into it hard the next two weeks. I hope the installer did not install the larger bore JMC unit, he says he didnt. Just thought I would post my experience so far. If I can't get it to work right, I will go Hydroboost.

Frank

 

[Edbert]

I had a hard time finding the "T", tried all the usual sources with no luck. What do you think of this part?

Think it will work to split the line from the MC to the fronts?

 

[reenmachine]

I had a hard time finding the "T", tried all the usual sources with no luck. What do you think of this part?

Think it will work to split the line from the MC to the fronts?

That looks pretty good to me. Where'd you find it?

 

[Edbert]

That looks pretty good to me. Where'd you find it?

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=4467&categoryID=156

I'm particularly happy with the mounting mechanism/bracket, it looks almost exactly like the factory distro-block one I have.

Since I'm going to need to make my own lines from the MC to this and the prop-valve, is there a certain size line and/or fitting I should use? The stock ones I have are three different sized fittings with very small lines.

 

[mdjay]

http://www.reenmachine.com/wilwood_master_cylinder.php

That's an awesome master... A bit pricey though