Long Tube Headers Or Shorties?

havin · Apr 20, 2015

Hello everyone!!
Just picked up a 2000 and the exhaust needs to be changed asap, what should I do? I will need the catted H or X pipe as well.

hotstang_46 · Apr 20, 2015

long tubes, don't even think twice about it

Three50won · Apr 21, 2015

Yea go with LTs. I chose STs a few years ago because LTs tend to hang low on these cars. But next time I am def going with LTs regardless.

coletrickle46 · Apr 21, 2015

LONGTUBES NO QUESTION! I made the mistake and put a set shorties on a daily driver 99 GT awhile back and it did nothing that the good ol trusty rear end dyno could tell and their was a dyno day shortly after and it gave me a whole 3.5 hp lol . If your gonna do headers might as well do it rite the first time and never look back man. Affordable brands that have been around for awhile are BBK., Mac ( i have those on mine now ), Pypes is new on the 2v 4.6 scene few years about now, but so far i have heard good stuff about their products. This is option know as " Ebay Headers ' getting super popular i dunno if that's good or bad for us customers down the road. You can pick up a stainless steel, ceramic styles on there for $200-$250 and that's with shipping included. My buddy picked up a clean N/A 04 Saleen Inferno Red couple months ago and he is fine ( don't give a crap about a name n it's all bout quality and does the same job! ) he picked up a nice kit made my Manzo exhaust and they were sweet! And not even because where they were bought but they could easily hang with the brands i listed already. If you have anymore ?'s u can PM me or continue it in the thread and get more options i might have not known of and i'm a newbie everyone is super cool and will help with whatever. Cheers . FYI this is a little thing but is or will piss u off like no other is get the FORD EXHAUST GASKETS FROM YOUR LOCAL DEALER OR ONLINE. DO NOT DO NOT USED ANYTHING ELSE U WILL BE KICKN YOURSELF HARD IF U DONT!

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 21, 2015

Curious....why do you think the exhaust "needs to be changed ASAP"? Have you done other mods to the car? Are you looking for a big power increase, or just a little sound from the exhaust? If it's the latter, just swap out the cat back and mid pipe and call it a day.

LT's will certainly boost torque some....but on a stock car, you're not going to see a lot of seat of the pants gain. The LT's are a big expense, a big pain the change and reduce ground clearance.

I've gone the bolt on route on a 4.6L in the past, as well as the forced induction route and if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't waste my time with the small stuff.....I'd just save up for a blower and really make a difference. You'll end up spending the same amount of money in the end, but instead of picking up a total of about 30hp in stages that you'll never feel with the N/A bolt ons, you'll add 100hp with the blower.....and actually improve drivability instead of reduce it and will actually throw you back into your seat when you stomp the pedal.

03_TrueBlue_GT · Apr 21, 2015

Gearbanger 101 said:
Curious....why do you think the exhaust "needs to be changed ASAP"? Have you done other mods to the car? Are you looking for a big power increase, or just a little sound from the exhaust? If it's the latter, just swap out the cat back and mid pipe and call it a day.

LT's will certainly boost torque some....but on a stock car, you're not going to see a lot of seat of the pants gain. The LT's are a big expense, a big pain the change and reduce ground clearance.

I've gone the bolt on route on a 4.6L in the past, as well as the forced induction route and if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't waste my time with the small stuff.....I'd just save up for a blower and really make a difference. You'll end up spending the same amount of money in the end, but instead of picking up a total of about 30hp in stages that you'll never feel with the N/A bolt ons, you'll add 100hp with the blower.....and actually improve drivability instead of reduce it and will actually throw you back into your seat when you stomp the pedal.

I thought the general idea was to get long tubes paired with a forced induction setup to get the best power out of it? I wouldn't think doing long tubes first before installing a supercharger would be a waste

restomod66 · Apr 21, 2015

I wouldn't call installing a set of LT's before going FI a "waste" b/c they're obviously superior to the stock manifolds by a mile. You just won't be maximizing the potential of the LT's with a relatively stock engine. The car will definitely sound a lot better either way. I'm not terribly fond of LT Headers simply b/c of the ground clearance issues. You WILL scrape on everything, you WILL have exhaust leaks all the time b/c of it, & you WILL be replacing gaskets which isn't much fun. I had a set of Hooker Super Comps on my lowered 66 Mustang & it was a PIA, I ended up switching to a set of Hedman shorty headers b/c I got so sick of the issues.

Three50won · Apr 21, 2015

Yea ground clearance is one of the reasons I went with STs. My buddy had a yellow 98 Roush Cobra with LTs. They def did their thing, but boy did he scrape over everything no matter how slow he went over it. It was a pain driving with him because we'd hold up traffic going over speed bumps and he'd STILL scrape bad. And forget about lowering it.

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 21, 2015

03_TrueBlue_GT said:
I thought the general idea was to get long tubes paired with a forced induction setup to get the best power out of it? I wouldn't think doing long tubes first before installing a supercharger would be a waste

And if that were everyone's plan.....and they stuck to said plan, then I would agree with you.

You and I both know however, that's almost never how it goes. How many people talk of big aspirations of blowers and big power levels, only never to see said goals make it past the daydream stage.

We've all heard it....

"I'm going to get the little *cheap* stuff (throttle body, exhaust, intake, heads, cams, etc) first to maximize my engines potential for when I finally do put a [insert power adder here] on".

Now go back amongst the dozens.....no.....hundreds.....even thousands of claims made over they years on just this site alone by people who mirrored some variation of this statement and see how many of them ever actually reach their goals.....I'll bet less than 5%.

Why?, because the big, effective mods like blowers/turbo's are expensive and people have a tough time swallowing the bill. On the other hand, bolt ons by comparison are cheap and lets be frank....give the owner a "placebo" effect in most cases. A hundred bucks here, a couple hundred there.....easier to eat, as long as a person keeps telling themselves it's all part of a bigger plan.

So what they end up doing is sinking endless amount of money, into a car that they're never completely happy with for the next several years, until they've finally reached the point where they're tired of getting beat by the guy with the last generation Fox body (who's bolt ons are cheaper, fare more plentiful and more rewarding in return) and next generation S197 (who got the better top end to start with) and now the new S550 that just have it all and finally give up....selling/trading in their pride and joy for a song because it's now taken a massive depreciation hit over the years.

The 2V engines are a poor platform for N/A mods IMO. Very little bang for the buck and not at all cost effective. A personal will spend thousands of dollars over a period of years, just trying to get that kick in the pants the 2V was missing from the get go. All while the next GEN Mustangs keep getting faster and faster.

This is why I say don't waste time and money with the little stuff. If blower like power levels are what you want, then go for the blower right from the get go. If you still think you need more after than, then go ahead and fool around with the bolt ons. At least then, you'll actually be able to feel them working since you've now that got the blower backing your play. You'll also be far more satisfied the length of time you own your car if it's making the power levels you want right from the get go, rather than spending it frustrated and slow while you continue to piss money away on bolt ons while simultaneously scrounging to save for the blower in the process.

usaf_branham · Apr 21, 2015

GB is spot on. I swallowed the bill for the blower. I enjoyed it for years too... But, the 2v bottom end is made of glass, when you boost it, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when' it's going to pop.

At that point your options are to go with a shortblock, want to do heads and cams while your in it, realize your tranny won't hold that so replace that, upgrade the fuel system to feed it, and upgrade the rear end so it will last... Throw in other odds and ends and your looking at $15 to $20k worth of mods...

Or you get a coyote, install cat back for sound, add blower and u got a 600+ rwhp car. I chose coyote.

In regards to headers, get LT's or leave the stock manifolds... This has been talked about for years on stangnet. Shorties give little to no increase in rwhp. I picked up prolly 20 rwhp NA with the Lt's, o/r x, and catback.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 21, 2015

usaf_branham said:
GB is spot on. I swallowed the bill for the blower. I enjoyed it for years too... But, the 2v bottom end is made of glass, when you boost it, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when' it's going to pop.

At that point your options are to go with a shortblock, want to do heads and cams while your in it, realize your tranny won't hold that so replace that, upgrade the fuel system to feed it, and upgrade the rear end so it will last... Throw in other odds and ends and your looking at $15 to $20k worth of mods...

Or you get a coyote, install cat back for sound, add blower and u got a 600+ rwhp car. I chose coyote.

In regards to headers, get LT's or leave the stock manifolds... This has been talked about for years on stangnet. Shorties give little to no increase in rwhp. I picked up prolly 20 rwhp NA with the Lt's, o/r x, and catback.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree. A 2V modular will take the additional 100hp provide by a conservative supercharger set up all day long and won't give you any trouble....and in the end, that's still twice the power you'll ever seen from all basic bolt on parts combined. And your drivabiltiy and fuel mileage remains unaffected.....actually improved in some cases.

But now we're approaching that final straw....and the camels back is starting to get shaky. Yeah, if someone wanted to opt for a trick flow top end and some aggressive cams they might creep up on your average 6-8psi blown 2V power levels.....but consider. What did that trick flow top end, set of cams and all those bolt ons cost you after parts and labour? It bet it was more than your average entry level supercharger kit.....but now you've also got reduced drivability and fuel mileage to deal with.

IMO, at the age the SN95 and New Edge cars are at now, it's getting to the point where you need to spend more than what the car is worth, to make big, competitive power levels.

The new S550's are making power levels and running track times similar to that of a blown and bolt on '99-'04 GT now.....except the S550 guys don't have to worry about bending a rod, or shattering a piston skirt if they want to make power levels beyond their stock 420-440hp range like the 2V guys do when the get up around those power levels. And if you want to get out and stay ahead of one, having to spend an additional $3,000+ on a built short block and then thousands more on ignition, fuel system, suspension and driveline upgrades after you've already spent $6,000+ on a blower and bolt ons should be a real reality check for the 2V crowd. You need to seriously ask yourself at that point....."is it worth if for me to try to push this platform any further"?

Deleted member 38176 · Apr 21, 2015

03_TrueBlue_GT said:
I thought the general idea was to get long tubes paired with a forced induction setup to get the best power out of it? I wouldn't think doing long tubes first before installing a supercharger would be a waste

I noticed an exceptional gain on my car pre-blower with LT's

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 21, 2015

Nightfire said:
I noticed an exceptional gain on my car pre-blower with LT's

And what did you have installed prior to them? And for that matter, were the headers installed alone, or with other bolt ons?

usaf_branham · Apr 21, 2015

When I put the LT's on my 04, the only thing that was done to it was a bbk cai and flowmaster american thunder cat back. I installed the LT's with a bbk o/r x-pipe and that was it. It definitely made a difference.

usaf_branham · Apr 21, 2015

Gearbanger 101 said:
IMO, at the age the SN95 and New Edge cars are at now, it's getting to the point where you need to spend more than what the car is worth, to make big, competitive power levels.

Also take in to consideration that if the person doing the modding wants to remain 2v, it is highly unlikely that they can exceed what a supercharged coyote can do with just a blower. Often times, when people do cough up the coin for a supercharger kit, they get the recommended blower kit for their car... which is why I bought the KB 2.1 Intercooled kit as opposed to getting the 2.6 tuner kit... So, had I built my car, the blower would have been the limiting factor and I wouldn't be able to exceed 600 rwhp. The IAT's would have been through the roof as well. Granted, some guys went with turbos and some of the centri's are easy (and less expensive) swaps... but either way, my '04 booked around $8500 for private party in excellent condition. I would have definitely spent about 20k to get to 600 rwhp. That 20k is on top of the near 13k of mods that was already done to it... with the purchase price of car, it would have been a total of around $50k invested not counting the payments made that went to interest. 50k investment for a car that probably wouldn't sell for 15k even with all the mods.

03_TrueBlue_GT · Apr 21, 2015

Not to go off topic but after reading y'alls comments I'm having doubts about supercharging my 2003 now... I thought the rods on these motors was the weak link and not the bottom ends? I was wanting my 2v to be able to run low 12's and not have to do a lot to the motor... I guess a new 5.0 is the best option if I want something reliable and fast...

havin · Apr 21, 2015

My neighbor has a Z06 that sounds sooo good and loud, I would like to be atleast "In the game". Sound and power increase is the goal.

Gearbanger 101 said:
Curious....why do you think the exhaust "needs to be changed ASAP"? Have you done other mods to the car? Are you looking for a big power increase, or just a little sound from the exhaust? If it's the latter, just swap out the cat back and mid pipe and call it a day.

LT's will certainly boost torque some....but on a stock car, you're not going to see a lot of seat of the pants gain. The LT's are a big expense, a big pain the change and reduce ground clearance.

I've gone the bolt on route on a 4.6L in the past, as well as the forced induction route and if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't waste my time with the small stuff.....I'd just save up for a blower and really make a difference. You'll end up spending the same amount of money in the end, but instead of picking up a total of about 30hp in stages that you'll never feel with the N/A bolt ons, you'll add 100hp with the blower.....and actually improve drivability instead of reduce it and will actually throw you back into your seat when you stomp the pedal.

Three50won · Apr 21, 2015

The problem is that you're comparing cars. And when that happens, people start getting jaded. in the 90s, 400 hp was impressive. In the early 2000s, high 400 to low 500 was impressive. These days, nobody is impressed with even high 500s, everyone wants well into the 600s at minimum. And now you got people wanting to push 700s. And all the while, a 400 hp 2V New Edge is superfun to drive. But when you compare that 400 hp at 8psi to a Coyote's 400 stock with bolt-ons, you start feeling lame. But you forget that your New Edge is over 10 years old and technology has far surpassed what it was. Older cars will never be able to match newer cars. That is just how it is. The thing you have to do is enjoy the car for itself. I love my 03 GT. Even with basic bolt-ons I thought it was fun to drive. I have a 2010 Camaro SS with full bolt ons....but my little 2V is still a blast even in all its 14 sec glory. I never compared her to the SS.

But lets be real about modding. A 2V with a stock bottom end, ported heads, stage 1 cams, headers, intake stuff, and 8 psi can make about 450 to the wheels. And with meth or an innercooler and good tuning, it'll be reliable all day. On DRs, it'll run low 12s...maybe high 11s with gearing and a stall converter (if an auto). At those levels, you aren't gonna find too many that can beat you. Heck I have a hard time finding other cars that can keep up with my SS as it is. And what does all that cost you? Not much. We all can piece together stuff for very low prices. And if you built a block, upped to a T-Trim at 12-15 psi, modified your fuel lines and rails, along with the other mods, you can see into the high 500s low 600s. It has been done. It isn't really that hard or expensive for most of us with knowledge and experience.

Personally, I will never get rid of my New Edge.

Three50won · Apr 21, 2015

03_TrueBlue_GT said:
Not to go off topic but after reading y'alls comments I'm having doubts about supercharging my 2003 now... I thought the rods on these motors was the weak link and not the bottom ends? I was wanting my 2v to be able to run low 12's and not have to do a lot to the motor... I guess a new 5.0 is the best option if I want something reliable and fast...

Rods are part of the bottom end. If you keep your boost at 8-10 psi, you should be able to get into the 12s with DRs pretty easily. Especially if you have a 5 speed.

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 22, 2015

Three50won said:
But lets be real about modding. A 2V with a stock bottom end, ported heads, stage 1 cams, headers, intake stuff, and 8 psi can make about 450 to the wheels. And with meth or an innercooler and good tuning, it'll be reliable all day.

I wouldn't take that statement to the bank. I've seen plenty of 2V's with stock bottom ends fail long before that....even with the above. There is absolutely no room for error at those power levels. One bad tank of fuel....a missed gear.....pushing it hard on a hot day.....run that tank of water meth low. Any of the aforementioned would spell all she wrote for that engine. Mod motors are not detonation friendly, even without forced induction to speed them on their way out.

havin said:
My neighbor has a Z06 that sounds sooo good and loud, I would like to be atleast "In the game". Sound and power increase is the goal.

Well....you're not gonna get it done against a Z06 with just bolt ons, I'll tell you that right now. Start looking into a power adder at the very least. First generation C5 Z06's are mid-12-second cars all day.....and some have dipped into the low-12's/high-11's with them.

A C6 Z06 is going to eat your lunch even with the blower under the hood. Plan on spending A PILE of cash if you expect to be chasing one of those down. A STOCK C6 Z06 will run 11's with ease and I've seen at least one run into the high-10's with nothing more than drag radials.

If it's a C7 Z06...well, you might as well just blow your car up now and save yourself the money and aggravation of doing it later on trying to keep up with him. It'll never happen.

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