I have a completely stock 91 police coupe. Are the long tubes a hassle, are they worth it. What brand would you guys recommend. I just want to put a couple of bolt-ons such as a cold air and a full exhaust on. Wasn't sure if shorties outweigh the hassle of more power from a long tube. Thanks a lot
long tubes or not?
- Thread starter TW0
- Start date
I know there's a lot of debate as to whether longtubes actually make more power than shorties on stock-ish cars, but I think the general impression is that they give more low end torque, and about the same otherwise. I recently went from equal length shorties/offroad h pipe to longtubes and a prochamber. It definately seems to move a little better in the lower rpm range, although my lousy traction doesn't help me judge that. Sounds way better too. I went with the bbk ceramic coated headers, great fit, looks like they'll last a while. So far so good. Are the longtubes worth it on an otherwise stock car? I don't know, but for that matter shorties aren't going to help you either, they may even lose you some torque. The stock headers are a great match for the stock intake/heads, so until you go changing one or both of those I'd stay stock personally.
Bone stock, you'll be dissapointed with any header you put on there really. Maby doing on o/r H pipe but leave the headers alone. I would spend the money on some gears.
I'm very happy with the performance gains of LT's on my stock motor.
Hooker Super Comps.
True equal length primaries, and a proper 3" collector and 3-bolt flange. I mated it to Hookers matching off road H.
I forget now, but I think it was ~15hp and ~18tq over stock shorties and off road H setup.
Either way, at the track it was the difference from high 13.9's @ 97mph to low 13.7's @ 99mph... with 60's within a few 100ths of each other.
Hooker Super Comps.
True equal length primaries, and a proper 3" collector and 3-bolt flange. I mated it to Hookers matching off road H.
I forget now, but I think it was ~15hp and ~18tq over stock shorties and off road H setup.
Either way, at the track it was the difference from high 13.9's @ 97mph to low 13.7's @ 99mph... with 60's within a few 100ths of each other.
25thmustang
Mustang Master
I saw my best gains from long tubes...
Car had shorties, catted H and no pulleys and ran 13.8 @ 98.
Then swirched to LTs, prochamber, and added pulleys and the car ran 13.0 @ 103.
The motor was close to stock with just Intake, TB, rockers and the exhaust!
Car had shorties, catted H and no pulleys and ran 13.8 @ 98.
Then swirched to LTs, prochamber, and added pulleys and the car ran 13.0 @ 103.
The motor was close to stock with just Intake, TB, rockers and the exhaust!
They did a test in the MM&FF with long tubes and equal lengths and shorties.... they were basically dead even in everything. I would get some JBA Shorties if you have the money
but I think the shorties are the easiest to install, the equal lengths are a bitch and the full tubes can be a bitch. You also have to get extended O2's for the Longtubes, and a different H-pipe. I would get the shorties and a BBK h-pipe, cuz they are inexpensive and you will notice a difference on a stock engine. But gears and a short throw are the best bang for the buck..... but the H-pipe alone with give you a noticeable gain. Good Luck
but I think the shorties are the easiest to install, the equal lengths are a bitch and the full tubes can be a bitch. You also have to get extended O2's for the Longtubes, and a different H-pipe. I would get the shorties and a BBK h-pipe, cuz they are inexpensive and you will notice a difference on a stock engine. But gears and a short throw are the best bang for the buck..... but the H-pipe alone with give you a noticeable gain. Good Luck
BlackDrop50
Founding Member
Personally I wouldn't even get headers until you do the heads, the gain is not worth much. The installation is a pain in the ass, if you don't do it yourself, shops will charge you an arm and a leg, for 5-10hp!
If you do it when you get heads it will be MUCH easier, cost effective, and they will actually do something.
And do get longtubes if you are planning to get headers. Unless you want to stay smog legal.
If you do it when you get heads it will be MUCH easier, cost effective, and they will actually do something.
And do get longtubes if you are planning to get headers. Unless you want to stay smog legal.
vikingpower
New Member
long tubes rule
I put long tubes, BBK 1 5/8 w/h pipe on mine when it was pretty much stock up top, and I noticed a big difference... It was worth it even though I had to do it in a parking lot in the wet Washington winter. The hardest part was jacking the engine up and having to put on in from above and the other from below.
I put long tubes, BBK 1 5/8 w/h pipe on mine when it was pretty much stock up top, and I noticed a big difference... It was worth it even though I had to do it in a parking lot in the wet Washington winter. The hardest part was jacking the engine up and having to put on in from above and the other from below.
crunchie12268 said:
If MM and FF did it, then it must be true.
Trust me, you will NOT stop at just a bolt on car. Do it right the first time, get yourself a good set of LT headers, and an OR X, H, or Pro chamber (that comes down to what you like in sound), and then stick on a catback of your choice(...again, it comes down to what you like in sound).
You will feel a boost in the old SOTP meeter, but to really make the most of your exhaust, you need to increase the amount of air INTO the motor.
Your car will certainly sound much better than it does with the stock exhaust system. It will have a much more aggressive tone, and you will have that sound that made 5.0 Mustangs famous.
I have the BBK 1.75" Ceramic LT headers, matching OR X pipe, and American Thunder cat back, and I love it. Yeah, I know the headers are on the big side, but I figured when I shove a 331 or 347 in there, I will be glad I did it that way.
As for the install...LT headers are a Pain in the backside. On a stock motor, you would see a slight advantage to the LT's, but not enough to get excited about. If you add things in the future like a larger Throttle body, Intake, MAF meter, UD pulleys, etc....your gains with those mods will be a bit larger.
I say go LT, but that's just me.
Hax
25thmustang
Mustang Master
raph130 said:
Actually again this is very informed. Headers are not the bottle neck in the 5.0. The factory header design over the manifold most commonly used is very good. My friend Eric was well into the 12s on a stock motor with stock headers! He only saw a tenth by adding ceramic coated equal lengths!
5.0 Nostalgia
10 Year Member
Acually if Im correct MM did find Shorties to have more torqu by 3 more. I have the mag in front of me. I only remember cause a friend of mine said Ill gain the mosat od them but when seeing this I said ****! he was wrong.
I think it will depend on your set up too.
As far as my 2 1/2 cent go.... there really cool looking but a real pain in the *** to work on the car with. You almost have to pull the motor to put them on. And that sucks the BIG one.
Jason
I think it will depend on your set up too.
As far as my 2 1/2 cent go.... there really cool looking but a real pain in the *** to work on the car with. You almost have to pull the motor to put them on. And that sucks the BIG one.
Jason
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
If you look closely at the MM&FF test there are three things that are important to note. First, they were on a mildly built 347 - not a stock 302. Second, there was virtually no difference AT PEAK (less than 1%) between any of the 4 they tested - 1 5/8ths unequal shorties, 1 5/8 equal shorties, 1 5/8 long tubes, 1 3/4 long tubes - all from BBK. Third, look more closely at the data and you'll see that the long tubes (1 5/8 were better than the 1 3/4) made almost 40 lb-ft more torque down at 3000 rpm. As MM&FF often does in their tech articles, this important detail went totally un-mentioned in the article, nor did they print the data (who knows if they conducted the test) for what happened at lower rpm than 3000.
Others are correct - on an otherwise stock motor, I doubt you'll see much of a peak gain by replacing the stock headers. While they look restrictive, they don't seem to limit flow/HP until you get up into the 280-290 crank HP range. We replaced the stock headers with ceramic coated FRPP shorties on my mild H/C/I combo, and LOST 3HP; didn't gain at any point in the rpm range. Those folks who've shown gains that I've read about on otherwise stock motors replaced headers AND the rest of the system; I'd bet 90% of their gain at peak came from the REST of the system changes, not the header changes.
However, I think long tubes properly sized will significantly perk up the bottom end which is great for street driving. If I were in your shoes and were looking for mild mods to an otherwise stock car I'd: 1) Add 1.5" primary long tubes, and 2.5" system (high flow cats or no cats -- depending on what your emissions situation is); 2) remove the silencer from the stock cold air box and put a K&N in; 3) put 3.73 gears in it; 4) bump the timing up to 14 initial, 5) get tmoss to port the stock lower intake. On an otherwise solid engine, those changes will make a significant performance difference without impacting drivability, and your around town mileage may actually improve.
Others are correct - on an otherwise stock motor, I doubt you'll see much of a peak gain by replacing the stock headers. While they look restrictive, they don't seem to limit flow/HP until you get up into the 280-290 crank HP range. We replaced the stock headers with ceramic coated FRPP shorties on my mild H/C/I combo, and LOST 3HP; didn't gain at any point in the rpm range. Those folks who've shown gains that I've read about on otherwise stock motors replaced headers AND the rest of the system; I'd bet 90% of their gain at peak came from the REST of the system changes, not the header changes.
However, I think long tubes properly sized will significantly perk up the bottom end which is great for street driving. If I were in your shoes and were looking for mild mods to an otherwise stock car I'd: 1) Add 1.5" primary long tubes, and 2.5" system (high flow cats or no cats -- depending on what your emissions situation is); 2) remove the silencer from the stock cold air box and put a K&N in; 3) put 3.73 gears in it; 4) bump the timing up to 14 initial, 5) get tmoss to port the stock lower intake. On an otherwise solid engine, those changes will make a significant performance difference without impacting drivability, and your around town mileage may actually improve.
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