long tubes or not?

[raph130]

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[Michael Yount]

Raph - you win the Stangnet memorial "I only open my mouth to change feet" teeshirt for that post. What address should we send it to?

By the way, the single biggest restriction to flow on the stock engine is the lower intake - only flows about 130 cfm. Unless you do something about that, even different heads are limited in their effectiveness.

 

[TW0]

thanks guys, think I'll go w' those bbk ceramic longtubes and deal with the hassle of the install. I will however, put a king cobra clutch in while the exhaust is off so hopefully once the exhaust is on I won't have to remove it for a long time if ever. Let you know if I regret it I suppose!

 

[rd]

I have old school longtubes on both cars, and if I change exhausts, I am definitely going to shorties, so that they are easy to put on and take off, and setups, like h pipes and mufflers are readily available.

I had stock shorties for awhile, could be removed in 10 min, the longtubes take about 4 hours.

Originally, when I put the headers on the stock 79 two barrel 302, I noticed a major difference in how the engine responded. It was much quicker to rev, and seemed to rev a bit higher. Well worth it in my book.

 

[raph130]

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[cleanLX]

not that limited, theres a guy running 10.9 with stock intake heads tb, cam everything, its supercharged about 14psi makes almost 400rwhp. you can send it to Michael Yount, Idiot lane, Usa.

Forcing air thru the intake is a completely different ball game Ralph.
How exactly does the flow charactictics of a N/A motor even remotley resemble that of one at 14+psi?
Michael needs your proper address.

 

[25thmustang]

Ok raph, I agree with M Yount on this one, you are quite the Mustang owner, with no real knowledge, just stuff you have heard...

Believe me, I know about the WRX that walked all over your old white LX, and have the video to prove it! I also know the kid doesnt have that car anymore and has an LS1 which would absolutely own you from anywhere, but you already know, he ran your friends "nasty" car and even though yo guys claim his timing was at zero degrees, I hear the guess on the win was 5 bus lengths. Do us a favor and sell your car!

Oh well, you have no knowledge, post BS with nothing to back it up, and make Mustangers look bad. Good thing I know these LS1 guys that hate you, as they would have such disrespect for Mustangs if it werent for me!

 

[cleanLX]

all it takes is better headers and aluminum heads to make a 400hp 302.

Don't forget that 'stock' motor had prep'd cylinder bores, fancy rings, strip oriented intake/carb setup, ran 40" long primary long tubes designed to fit in a Falcon or something, had no accessories on it, no exhaust etc etc... and was tested on an engine dyno.

I cannot believe someone as astute as yourself would thro out a blanket statement like that without including all the info.
I also cannot believe, that you actually think adding a set of afr's to an otherwise stock 5.0 would add up to anything more than ~260hp.
Add intake, exhaust and fuel and you 'might' see 300 with the stock cam.

 

[25thmustang]

Don't forget that 'stock' motor had prep'd cylinder bores, fancy rings, strip oriented intake/carb setup, ran 40" long primary long tubes designed to fit in a Falcon or something, had no accessories on it, no exhaust etc etc... and was tested on an engine dyno.

I cannot believe someone as astute as yourself would thro out a blanket statement like that without including all the info.
I also cannot believe, that you actually think adding a set of afr's to an otherwise stock 5.0 would add up to anything more than ~260hp.
Add intake, exhaust and fuel and you 'might' see 300 with the stock cam.

I just cant believe there is a Mustang owner so ignorant to the power they make, and such, He is talking 280 rwhp like its easy to do on a stock motor, and claimed he can tune a car to 260 rwhp. He claims track times yet has no timeslips.

I know a few guys who know him personally. He doesnt know anything about Mustangs (I know, this is obvious) and is the ultimate loser. He has tons of excuses, and whatnot. Just your typical moron who happens to own a 5.0!

 

[87TTopGT]

not that limited, theres a guy running 10.9 with stock intake heads tb, cam everything, its supercharged about 14psi makes almost 400rwhp. you can send it to Michael Yount, Idiot lane, Usa.

Oh, it's SUPERCHARGED- Raph, you ever heard the saying-

"Better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Be silent...

 

[cleanLX]

If you look closely at the MM&FF test there are three things that are important to note. First, they were on a mildly built 347 - not a stock 302. Second, there was virtually no difference AT PEAK (less than 1%) between any of the 4 they tested - 1 5/8ths unequal shorties, 1 5/8 equal shorties, 1 5/8 long tubes, 1 3/4 long tubes - all from BBK. Third, look more closely at the data and you'll see that the long tubes (1 5/8 were better than the 1 3/4) made almost 40 lb-ft more torque down at 3000 rpm. As MM&FF often does in their tech articles, this important detail went totally un-mentioned in the article, nor did they print the data (who knows if they conducted the test) for what happened at lower rpm than 3000..

And if they would have used typical shorties compared to proper equal length primary long tubes, witha proper 3" -3 bolt unrestritced collector, we'd have seen differnt results.

However, I think long tubes properly sized will significantly perk up the bottom end which is great for street driving. If I were in your shoes and were looking for mild mods to an otherwise stock car I'd: 1) Add 1.5" primary long tubes, and 2.5" system (high flow cats or no cats -- depending on what your emissions situation is); 2) remove the silencer from the stock cold air box and put a K&N in; 3) put 3.73 gears in it; 4) bump the timing up to 14 initial, 5) get tmoss to port the stock lower intake. On an otherwise solid engine, those changes will make a significant performance difference without impacting drivability, and your around town mileage may actually improve.

Ditto.

 

[cleanLX]

I'll go w' those bbk ceramic longtubes and deal with the hassle of the install.

FWIW, Hooker Super Comps are a much better designed header.

 

[25thmustang]

After talking with a friend of mine who runs FS, he saw the same power from 1 3/4" shorties as he did from 1 5/8" long tubes. I would say when comparing aftermarket headers the long tubes on most applications will make more power...

But headers are not necessary as stated before. They are a MUCH better design than a manifold!

 

[cleanLX]

After talking with a friend of mine who runs FS, he saw the same power from 1 3/4" shorties as he did from 1 5/8" long tubes. I would say when comparing aftermarket headers the long tubes on most applications will make more power...

What rpm was the dyno pulls made from?
I find it extreamly difficult to believe that hp/tq from 2000-3800 was the same.

 

[25thmustang]

I wasnt able to ask. Im sure he was talking peak numbers, and the car made power until about 5500 (stock cam)...

I dont talk with him much but could probably get the info out of him. This is also on a 330 or so rwhp car, so te numbers dont show what a stock motor would see...