Looking for 400hp from 351w

67GTCOUPE said:

What I would encourage is a stroker.

Since you have 302 pistons in hand...... bore the 351 block to 0.030" over use those pistons (I assume they are forged...if not...sell them and get a complete 408w kit)...if they are forged.....buy a 393 nodular iron crank from CHP or Speed-O-Motive for instance, get ARP rod bolts installed in your 74 351w rods...need them resized as well....MAKE SURE YOUR MACHINE SHOP gives you large bearing clearances!!!!!! 351w have large bearing surface...run the clearances on the BIG side...at least one thou per inch of journal! I ruined a brand new 351w due to this fact.

Get the whole assembly balanced as well. I run the Mellings high volume RACE oil pump and a 7 quart milodon oil pan as well....I DO NOT want any oil starvation issues.

As far as a cam.....AFR website has a bunch of test engine articles on their site...I know they had a 393/403 with 185's....I would look at that to see what hp they got and what cam they ran...I think it was a comp XR series???

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the pistons i sold him are cast pistons, and will do him well for up to about 500hp, or if he decides to run nitrous or a supercharger.

i do also agree with balancing the rotating assembly though, it will pay dividends in how smoothly the engine runs when finally put together.

and dont forget 66stang351w is seventeen, so he needs to be a bit conservative in how he builds this motor. when he gets some driving experience under his belt, then we can help him build 500+hp from this motor. we do want to keep him around for a while.

66stang351w said:

65shelbyclone, I have looked into the t5 and IMO it isn't right for me. The reason is that at some point I plan on building more power into the engine. Another is that I already got the toploader, shifter, flywheel, 351 block, 2 sets of pistons new, crankshaft, and oil pan all for $400 . So I figured that with the money I saved there I could do something that I wouldn't have normally been able to do. Now whether its the over drive or something else I don't know but I am going to stick with the toploader and the 351.

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I just said "Tremec 5-speed," not specifically the T5. Entire TKO conversions(with a new trans, not used) for Fox3 Mustangs are only a few hundred more than a GV overdrive.

67GTCOUPE said:

If you have the cash to put in the overdrive....AWESOME!!!

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Then fuel economy shouldn't be a concern....

rbohm said:

tnd dont forget 66stang351w is seventeen, so he needs to be a bit conservative in how he builds this motor.

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In that case, I think a 302-based engine or a mild 351W will be more than enough. Big power alone is not a wise goal to chase IMO, especially in a 40+ year-old platform. Chassis, brakes, and safety require just as much attention.

chp puts outs some good stuff. the kit is a good idea since it gives you everything you need all at once.

That isn't a bad kit...I am not crazy about the cheap I beam rods.....I would ask them if they could upgrade the rods to Pro I beam rods (? cost?).

I would call these guys...good prices:


Small Block Ford Stroker Kits : AD Performance, Your Source for Longblock Performance Parts

UPGRADE TO THE H BEAM RODS FOR THE EXTRA $125.00!!!!!!!

There is also fordstrokers.com. I haven't dealt with them, just know about them.

400 HP is a LOT of power for an inexperienced driver, and easily achievable with a standard stroke 351W. The stock rods can easily handle it, so there is no need to waste money on over engineering your combo.

If the budget allows, retrofit lifters are better than a retrofit cam, as you can use any off the shelf hyd roller grind out there.

A 5 speed is absolutely critical to getting good gas mileage, as is a vacuum secondary appropriately sized carb (600cfm is plenty!). Don't let anyone talk you into changing your original goals. They are excellent goals for a first time Mustang project.

If you were my son, this is the advice I would give you.

As mentioned previously, safety and reliability need to be equal in weight to power. That means plan on upgrading the brakes, suspension and steering to match the power output.

If you go with forged pistons you will have to have the block machined as the tolerance is generally greater than for cast pistons, even with the high silicon forgings. You may have to do this anyway depending on the condition of the block. Let your machinist take a look and go with his recommendation.

69gmachine said:

400 HP is a LOT of power for an inexperienced driver, and easily achievable with a standard stroke 351W. The stock rods can easily handle it, so there is no need to waste money on over engineering your combo.

If the budget allows, retrofit lifters are better than a retrofit cam, as you can use any off the shelf hyd roller grind out there.

A 5 speed is absolutely critical to getting good gas mileage, as is a vacuum secondary appropriately sized carb (600cfm is plenty!). Don't let anyone talk you into changing your original goals. They are excellent goals for a first time Mustang project.

If you were my son, this is the advice I would give you.

As mentioned previously, safety and reliability need to be equal in weight to power. That means plan on upgrading the brakes, suspension and steering to match the power output.

If you go with forged pistons you will have to have the block machined as the tolerance is generally greater than for cast pistons, even with the high silicon forgings. You may have to do this anyway depending on the condition of the block. Let your machinist take a look and go with his recommendation.

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I agree 400 hp is achievable with a 351w easily.

BUT, I disagree with the stock or stock style rods........You need to put ARP bolts into stock rods to get reliable PERFORMANCE usage....that alone is near the cost of H beam or Pro I beam rods from a good vendor. Also, the big end of the stock type rods (this goes for eagle and scat) will Ovalize with hard usage....So spend an extra $100 or so for the good H beam or Pro I beam....and you never have to worry about the rods again.

I would not run CAST pistons in anything more than a garbage truck! Sorry, but they are NOT what you want in a performance engine.....they can take out a nice set of AFR heads if they decide to break-up with detonation.

As far as the clearence on the bore.....Talk to the piston manufacturer or vendor to get the EXACT recommendation and make sure your machine shop knows what you need....they need your whole rotating assembly to balance it as well. Brian at AD Performance is a great guy to work with...awesome prices and he knows his stuff: He has had engines in the Engine Masters Challenge.

And obviously, you will have a bit of a monster on your hands......use commonsense and good BRAKES are a must.

66, getting 400HP out of a Windsor, like everyone else has mentioned, is easy. Please understand, though, it’s going to suck gas. Getting high teens will be impressive if you lean hard towards power.

I was 16 with the same ’65 I’ve got now. I had a pretty decent 289 at the time. I grew up driving the car, and unless she’s getting an upgrade, I like to drive her to work. That being said, here’s some “real world” experience from someone who’s been in your shoes and someone who’s in your parents’ shoes.

I don’t know your driving experience, so please give me some room here, okay? I don’t know if you grew up driving F1 cars or if you learned to drive in your dad’s 1972 Ranger. That being said, it’s going to take a lot of work to make your car safe to drive on today’s streets. Let me qualify that a bit. Today’s cars, in comparison to what you have, are pretty amazing with regards to handling. Typically, they’re going to be able to out accelerate you most of the time, out corner you almost all of the time, and with almost complete certainty, out brake you in frightening amounts. That means that EVEN IF you’re a really spiffy driver, the other guys probably aren’t BUT are used to being around other cars that handle like them. They don’t understand the differences in your car and theirs. They don’t care, either. They’ll stop short, pull out in front of you, and cut you off just like the guys who have nimble little Coopers. THIS is an issue regardless of how good you are. Forget about you. Your ability may not even be in the equation.

That being said, a 400HP stroker won’t keep you alive. If I were 17 again in today’s world, and knew what I know now, I’d put in a fuel injected 302 in my car, and forget about power until I had enough suspension and brakes to feel REALLY safe out there. If you’ve already got the engine and all, cool! Roll on with it, but keep in mind that suspension and traction will keep you alive.

While you’re working on your motor, put aside some funds to put AT LEAST front discs on. Also, you may want to look at some serious suspension mods to keep you alive out there. I’d do whatever it took to get rid of bump steer for sure.

Also, I’d recommend the BEST TIRES you can get under your wheel wells. I run Toyo T1-S’s on my ’65, and rain is no issue. I really REALLY like Toyo tires. To me, they’re worth the extra money. There are other good tires out there, I know, but they’re my choice. I’d skimp on drivetrain before I’d skimp on tires. A built toploader and 9” won’t save you when you hit some unexpected water in a corner.

If you’re going to drive this car much, one thing you ARE going to learn how to do is . . . drive! A ’65 or ’66 is nothing like a modern car. It’s not a car you can “forget” about. She’s like a really hot girlfriend . . . lots of fun, but if you take your eyes off of her for a second, you can lose her.  The good thing is that once you learn how to keep that girl, keeping a modern “girl” will be a lot easier. UNFORTUNATELY, your old girl will be about as forgiving as my Sicilian wife and will recover almost as fast.

And before you tune me out, lol, I WAS your age with about the same car. I think I’ve replaced EVERYTHING but the trunk, roof, and passenger side rear panel. And yeah, I was a relatively good driver at 16/17.

I hope I didn’t blow this off track. I just want you to have the best AND LONGEST LASTING experience with your car that you can have . . . and when it’s over, STILL HAVE THE CAR.