Low HP (Tork Tech)

REDSTALION · Nov 14, 2009

Hi Guys,

recently I installed a Tork Tech M112 intercooled kit on my 2000 GT (Manual tranny), the company claims that a stock GT with their kit should reach +360rwhp @10psi, and from what i have seen here a couple of members here has exceeded that with some bolt ons only.

My car has the following,

BBK L/T
O/R X-pipe
2.5" exhaust (locally fabricated) with MagnaFlow mufflers welded in
COMP cams XE-262AH
4.10's

After i got it properly tuned, i tested it on the dyno to see what it got, and here i got very disappointed, only 330rwhp/328rwtq, the max boost was 13psi.

And something to add here is that my fuel pump has maxed out @5500rpm
the car has a SVT Focus pump with a 42Lbs inj, do they all max out @330rwhp?
My tuner said that i should solve the fuel problem and then he would advance the timing few more degrees and see.

I asked Tork Tech tuner and he said 13psi is high; it might be my exhaust not flowing well and restricting the car from performing well.

Im really confused here, should i solve the fuel problem first? Or change my exhaust setup?

deftsound · Nov 14, 2009

Wow that is extremely low. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with your exhaust, im still running the stock catback and look at my numbers...

It could be a fuel problem, i upgraded to the 03-04 cobra pump and didnt look back...if its not that i would point to the tune...

Tim2002GT · Nov 14, 2009

What is your a/f ratio? Can't really tell in your graph the way its cropped. If its what I think it is, it looks to be rich and if thats the case, I recommend you find a new shop to do your tuning. I am guessing the red line is ~12:1. If that's the case your a/f is hovering in the 10:1 range and you could stand to gain quite a bit of power by leaning it out.

Btw, most people don't start to max out those Focus SVT pumps until ~400rwph.

REDSTALION · Nov 14, 2009

Tim2002GT said:
What is your a/f ratio? Can't really tell in your graph the way its cropped. If its what I think it is, it looks to be rich and if thats the case, I recommend you find a new shop to do your tuning. I am guessing the red line is ~12:1. If that's the case your a/f is hovering in the 10:1 range and you could stand to gain quite a bit of power by leaning it out.

Btw, most people don't start to max out those Focus SVT pumps until ~400rwph.

Its actualy lean, the red line in the graph is 13:1, during the run it was varying between 11.5-12.5 and leans out to 13 at the end.

98COBRA281 · Nov 14, 2009

somthing is deffently wrong! cheack the fuel pressure.....

i should make that muck next week on the dyno and im all motor.....

oxfordgt · Nov 14, 2009

Your fuel looks fine other then it leaning out above 6000. What is your timing?

Tim2002GT · Nov 14, 2009

oxfordgt said:
Your fuel looks fine other then it leaning out above 6000. What is your timing?

x2 It doesn't really even lean out til nearly 6500 either. Timing, like Ox said, is likely the culprit to your low hp #'s.

I know we have completely different setups, but at WOT with my nitrous tune I am ~16* total timing. I could probably stand to add a degree or two also. What octane is your tune setup for?

trinity_gt · Nov 14, 2009

REDSTALION said:
Hi Guys,

recently I installed a Tork Tech M112 intercooled kit on my 2000 GT (Manual tranny), the company claims that a stock GT with their kit should reach +360rwhp @10psi, and from what i have seen here a couple of members here has exceeded that with some bolt ons only.

...

After i got it properly tuned, i tested it on the dyno to see what it got, and here i got very disappointed, only 330rwhp/328rwtq, the max boost was 13psi.

...

I asked Tork Tech tuner and he said 13psi is high; it might be my exhaust not flowing well and restricting the car from performing well.

I believe your answer lies in these lines.

Lots of indicated boost pressure -- 13psi -- and low power (330) indicates a back pressure problem. After all, boost is just one measure of back pressure. It's why small turbos and big turbos don't make nearly the same power even if they run similar boost pressures.

You've got an O/R X which rules out a catalytic converter problem. It's doubtful the Magnaflows or 2.5" piping is blocked so perhaps you can rule out the exhaust from the manifolds back. Still, might be worthwhile getting under the car and inspecting the pipes for crushing damage (e.g. speedbumps?)

Still, you can't escape that unexpectedly high boost indicates a flow constriction somewhere. What did the car dyno before the blower? I've got XE262AH cams in my KB GT and even with the very conservative, very safe KB piggyback chip tune, the thing did 385. Were the cams degreed during the install?

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 14, 2009

Time for a compression test. You're down about 100rwhp/100rwtq from what you should be at those boost levels. There's no way your exhaust system is creating that much back pressure to cause such a power drop. Especially considering the off the shelf kits are making those numbers through stock exhaust systems at lower boost levels.

REDSTALION · Nov 15, 2009

oxfordgt said:
Your fuel looks fine other then it leaning out above 6000. What is your timing?

I think its set on 14*.

Tim2002GT said:
x2 It doesn't really even lean out til nearly 6500 either. Timing, like Ox said, is likely the culprit to your low hp #'s.

I know we have completely different setups, but at WOT with my nitrous tune I am ~16* total timing. I could probably stand to add a degree or two also. What octane is your tune setup for?

Its for 93 octane fuel.

trinity_gt said:
I believe your answer lies in these lines.

Lots of indicated boost pressure -- 13psi -- and low power (330) indicates a back pressure problem. After all, boost is just one measure of back pressure. It's why small turbos and big turbos don't make nearly the same power even if they run similar boost pressures.

You've got an O/R X which rules out a catalytic converter problem. It's doubtful the Magnaflows or 2.5" piping is blocked so perhaps you can rule out the exhaust from the manifolds back. Still, might be worthwhile getting under the car and inspecting the pipes for crushing damage (e.g. speedbumps?)

Still, you can't escape that unexpectedly high boost indicates a flow constriction somewhere. What did the car dyno before the blower? I've got XE262AH cams in my KB GT and even with the very conservative, very safe KB piggyback chip tune, the thing did 385. Were the cams degreed during the install?

Before the blower the car dynoed 283rwhp, and 369rwhp with 100hp wet shot Nitrous.
I'll get under the car and check, although i doubt anything is crushed there.

and the cams were degreed when i got them installed in 2005 .

trinity_gt · Nov 15, 2009

REDSTALION said:
Before the blower the car dynoed 283rwhp, and 369rwhp with 100hp wet shot Nitrous.
I'll get under the car and check, although i doubt anything is crushed there.

and the cams were degreed when i got them installed in 2005 .

283HP sounds very, very low for a 100-shot. Bone stock a PI Mustang is making 230 at the wheels. Your hundred-shot only got you 50HP. And the torque number looked good but probably peaked very low before falling over at higher RPM.

Gearbanger's suggestion of a compression test is a good one. Maybe the engine was already hurting even before the blower went on. I still believe the 13#s of indicated boost is an interesting clue...

REDSTALION · Nov 15, 2009

trinity_gt said:
283HP sounds very, very low for a 100-shot. Bone stock a PI Mustang is making 230 at the wheels. Your hundred-shot only got you 50HP. And the torque number looked good but probably peaked very low before falling over at higher RPM.

Gearbanger's suggestion of a compression test is a good one. Maybe the engine was already hurting even before the blower went on. I still believe the 13#s of indicated boost is an interesting clue...

Ooops, sorry i wasn't clear, 283rwhp NA, and with nitrous it dynoed 369rwhp.

myponyrocks · Nov 15, 2009

My car is most likely putting down 400 rwhp, and I'll I've got is a Focus pump. I'm only running at 8#s of boost though so maybe that's why I'm not running out of fuel... I dunno.

trinity_gt · Nov 15, 2009

REDSTALION said:
Ooops, sorry i wasn't clear, 283rwhp NA, and with nitrous it dynoed 369rwhp.

No, I think the mistake was mine: I thought I read "283rwhp and 369rwtq..." Sorry.

ScortLX · Nov 15, 2009

How many miles are on the motor overall? How many miles are on the motor since you have been running the nitrous? Did you do a compression test before putting the blower on? Just looking at all angles.

REDSTALION · Nov 15, 2009

ScortLX said:
How many miles are on the motor overall? How many miles are on the motor since you have been running the nitrous? Did you do a compression test before putting the blower on? Just looking at all angles.

The motor has 7000miles only, it has been rebuilted in May 2007 and i dont use the car very often, i have only used the nitrous twice on the dyno.

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 15, 2009

I still tend to lean towards issues with your engine. Whether it’s been hurt at some point during that 7,000-miles, or that the cams were installed incorrectly, or something of the nature.

The reason I don't believe it has anything to do with an exhaust restriction is that generally when there is a restriction in the system, although the horsepower figures tend to suffer, torque figures are often much higher and much earlier in the horsepower range. I don't see an indication of that with your horsepower/torque levels. I would have also considered asking what your elevation is, but since you’re seeing 13psi on the boost gauge, I don’t imagine that’s an issue either?

My kit for example makes 343hp/387tq to the wheels and is seeing about 9psi on the gauge...and that's being accomplished by over spinning an Eaton M90S....which is undoubtedly far less capable or less efficient that the Magnuson MP112 on your kit.

REDSTALION · Nov 15, 2009

I'll do a compression test ASAP, and see.
what should the compression be? as i have never done it before.

REDSTALION · Nov 15, 2009

something else i forgot to mention, ever since i installed the blower, the temprature of the car is slightly higher, it use to be on the mid line, and now its indicating 1 or 2 lines more after that.
although I got a mishimoto radiator on it

I dont know if thats level of temprature is normal for boosted 2v's, but every thing seems to be fine (the coolant level is not changing and its not coming out of the expansion tank, and nothing wrong with the engine oil).

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 15, 2009

REDSTALION said:
I'll do a compression test ASAP, and see.
what should the compression be? as i have never done it before.

Generally between 140-160psi. The cylinders shouldn't vary more than about 10% from one and other.

REDSTALION said:
something else i forgot to mention, ever since i installed the blower, the temprature of the car is slightly higher, it use to be on the mid line, and now its indicating 1 or 2 lines more after that.
although I got a mishimoto radiator on it

I dont know if thats level of temprature is normal for boosted 2v's, but every thing seems to be fine (the coolant level is not changing and its not coming out of the expansion tank, and nothing wrong with the engine oil).

This is just a shot in the dark without knowing fully, but you could also have a head gasket on its way out. It may not be severe yet since you don't seem to be losing coolant, but elevated temps and low horsepower figures are often indicators of a leak. The compression test will give you a better indication. It could also very well be that crappy Mishimoto radiator causing your temps to rise a little. I haven't heard one good thing about them yet.

Low HP (Tork Tech)

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