Lug nuts backing out?

Liberto · Sep 3, 2008

Ok so i got the new rims and tires from greg weld and i had to grind down the calipers slightly and run 1/4 wheel spacers on the front (cheep pep boys universal deals) well the lugs on the drivers side are coming loose very quickly... i'd say in 30 miles they are loose to the point where i feel a little wobble in the steering wheel can anyone be able to help me figure out why they woulnt seat? i THINK the caliper on the drivers side MIGHT be SLIGHTLY hitting the inside of the wheel still but i cant tell because there are pervious marks there from when the first near catastrophy happened... any help?

Liberto

fudleyd · Sep 3, 2008

Are the lug nuts coming loose, or are you saying the studs themselves are coming loose? Either way, it is way dangerous man and I wouldn't drive it anymore than I absolutely had to! It sounds like the backspacing is way off to start with...be careful and good luck.

Liberto · Sep 3, 2008

fudleyd said:
Are the lug nuts coming loose, or are you saying the studs themselves are coming loose? Either way, it is way dangerous man and I wouldn't drive it anymore than I absolutely had to! It sounds like the backspacing is way off to start with...be careful and good luck.

backspacing is right 5.5 for 15x8 thats what i searched for and found here on the website it seems like one or 2 lug nuts seem to be the problem but once they get loose the rest follow but the passanger side is fine everythings the same... i only drove it to diagnose how bad the problem was

SaleenGT2001 · Sep 3, 2008

did you torque them to 100 ft/lbs?

Liberto · Sep 3, 2008

SaleenGT2001 said:
did you torque them to 100 ft/lbs?

i think i might of tourqued them past that i tighten them with a 1/2 ratchet and no extension until they stop moving all together... all the other wheels held up...

fudleyd · Sep 3, 2008

I see, yeah I kinda jumped to conclusion on that one...sorry I didn't mean to sound condescending or anything. I just read the post and thought "oh dang" and could picture the wheel flying off.
It is kind of weird it's only doing it on one side, although there can be differences in our stangs, like the 0.5" ride height difference on both sides of mine after my spring install.
Maybe someone with a similar experience can chime in here...

Liberto · Sep 3, 2008

fudleyd said:
I see, yeah I kinda jumped to conclusion on that one...sorry I didn't mean to sound condescending or anything. I just read the post and thought "oh dang" and could picture the wheel flying off.
It is kind of weird it's only doing it on one side, although there can be differences in our stangs, like the 0.5" ride height difference on both sides of mine after my spring install.
Maybe someone with a similar experience can chime in here...

no no its fine i know theres plenty of people out there that dont know their ass from a hole in a ground but... i just checked the clearance between the caliper and rim and its got enough room but... i'm really starting to think its the spacers... i know people run spacers in the front but what am i doing wrong these are only 1/4" ....

fudleyd · Sep 4, 2008

Liberto said:
no no its fine i know theres plenty of people out there that dont know their ass from a hole in a ground but... i just checked the clearance between the caliper and rim and its got enough room but... i'm really starting to think its the spacers... i know people run spacers in the front but what am i doing wrong these are only 1/4" ....

I hear ya, I met one at the 7-Eleven this morning...

Are they bolt-through or bolt-on spacers? If they are the kind that slide over your studs then it could be there is not enough threading left on the stock studs and they are backing off maybe? There could be just enough difference between the passenger and driver's side to only show up on one. I have heard it's safer and a good idea to upgrade to hardened/longer studs when using them (spacers).

Liberto · Sep 4, 2008

fudleyd said:
I hear ya, I met one at the 7-Eleven this morning...

Are they bolt-through or bolt-on spacers? If they are the kind that slide over your studs then it could be there is not enough threading left on the stock studs and they are backing off maybe? There could be just enough difference between the passenger and driver's side to only show up on one. I have heard it's safer and a good idea to upgrade to hardened/longer studs when using them (spacers).

the pep boys ones are bolt through. I got BAER billet 1/4 ones made for the 5x4.5 pattern in the mail coming to me hopefully tomorrow... this sucks i wish i knew what the problem was... wouldnt studs be a bitch on our years cause their hub assemblies ?

BobHyatt · Sep 4, 2008

Sorry, but the spacers are a bad idea mechanically. Here's why. The stud goes thru the hub. The "tension" is between the _back_ of the stud, and the lug-nut that holds the wheel on. The distance between those two points is "X" on a stock wheel. If you add a spacer of thickness "Y", then the above dimension changes from "X" to "X+Y". Which is longer. Now the wheel is hanging on to the studs Y inches farther out, which is just like increasing the length of a lever. It is possible to start "wobbling" the studs since the forces are now acting on two points that are farther apart. That's why reversed rims are bad for any car. You extend the "lever" formed by the hub attached to the steering linkage, and now each bump has a longer lever to work with and things can actually bend.

You might have to replace the hub on the driver's side so that you can get tight "holes" for the studs again. Otherwise if they wobble, nuts are going to work loose and there's little that can be done.

BTW good spacers sit on the hub and you can not move them at all. Like the wheels are supposed to fit, snugged up so that the center of the hub mates up with the center of the wheel tightly to avoid the side-loads I was describing above. I have seen sloppy-fitting spacers and they just won't cut it.

Liberto · Sep 5, 2008

BobHyatt said:
Sorry, but the spacers are a bad idea mechanically. Here's why. The stud goes thru the hub. The "tension" is between the _back_ of the stud, and the lug-nut that holds the wheel on. The distance between those two points is "X" on a stock wheel. If you add a spacer of thickness "Y", then the above dimension changes from "X" to "X+Y". Which is longer. Now the wheel is hanging on to the studs Y inches farther out, which is just like increasing the length of a lever. It is possible to start "wobbling" the studs since the forces are now acting on two points that are farther apart. That's why reversed rims are bad for any car. You extend the "lever" formed by the hub attached to the steering linkage, and now each bump has a longer lever to work with and things can actually bend.

You might have to replace the hub on the driver's side so that you can get tight "holes" for the studs again. Otherwise if they wobble, nuts are going to work loose and there's little that can be done.

BTW good spacers sit on the hub and you can not move them at all. Like the wheels are supposed to fit, snugged up so that the center of the hub mates up with the center of the wheel tightly to avoid the side-loads I was describing above. I have seen sloppy-fitting spacers and they just won't cut it.

i agree these are sloppy f**kin spacers... i ordered the direct fit ones from CJ pony parts 1/4 baer billet ones and for a back up i ordered 1/8 maximum motor sports ones that again are for the mustangs so... we'll see... but ive seen spacers run on everyday cars with no problems... i just gotta find out lol

Mustang5L5 · Sep 5, 2008

BobHyatt said:
Sorry, but the spacers are a bad idea mechanically. Here's why. The stud goes thru the hub. The "tension" is between the _back_ of the stud, and the lug-nut that holds the wheel on. The distance between those two points is "X" on a stock wheel. If you add a spacer of thickness "Y", then the above dimension changes from "X" to "X+Y". Which is longer. Now the wheel is hanging on to the studs Y inches farther out, which is just like increasing the length of a lever. It is possible to start "wobbling" the studs since the forces are now acting on two points that are farther apart. That's why reversed rims are bad for any car. You extend the "lever" formed by the hub attached to the steering linkage, and now each bump has a longer lever to work with and things can actually bend.

+3 on that.

Those type of spacers are dangerous...and i would refuse to ride in a car using them.

Honestly, if you are running cheap spacers and grinding calipers down to make a wheel fit....then the wheel doesn't fit your car and shouldn't be used

Liberto · Sep 8, 2008

Mustang5L5 said:
+3 on that.

Those type of spacers are dangerous...and i would refuse to ride in a car using them.

Honestly, if you are running cheap spacers and grinding calipers down to make a wheel fit....then the wheel doesn't fit your car and shouldn't be used

The correct backspacing for a sn-95 15x8 wheel is 5.5 right?
and the grinding of the calipers were harmless because i was taking off the ugly raised metal parts left over from casting

Mustang5L5 · Sep 8, 2008

SN95 wheels are 5.72BS. That's on the 17x8's

What wheels are you trying to put on what car exactly?

Liberto · Sep 8, 2008

Mustang5L5 said:
SN95 wheels are 5.72BS. That's on the 17x8's

What wheels are you trying to put on what car exactly?

their on the car The Gregory Weld ProStars

View attachment 304616

I took off the cheap-o wheel spacer and found after we took a mic to it that it was not completely flat it had a slight wave to it... solved my problem

b653gunn · Sep 9, 2008

Response

I used spacers 1 inch front and back and bought some rims from a friend, put them on and the lug nuts were backing off ,what the problem is, is that you need acorn lug nuts look at the rims where the innner diameter is, it will be concaved ,your current lug nuts are not seating flat with rims,bought them from auto zone about 3.50 a peice.

Liberto · Sep 9, 2008

b653gunn said:
I used spacers 1 inch front and back and bought some rims from a friend, put them on and the lug nuts were backing off ,what the problem is, is that you need acorn lug nuts look at the rims where the innner diameter is, it will be concaved ,your current lug nuts are not seating flat with rims,bought them from auto zone about 3.50 a peice.

NOW THOES spacers i think are extremly dangerous... the 1"boys!!! i'm going qith 1/8 of an inch and to me thats not going to make any difference in anything as far as problems but that 1" *****... thats serious if i were to ever go with that big of a spacer i'd go with eibach hub centric ones that have studs in them because their so much of a difference...after this problem i never will buy spacers from any place other than maximum motor sports or baer sure as hell never autozone

snowb07 · Sep 9, 2008

for those types of rims you need lug nuts that have the extra long shank and washers or else they will back out.
they look similiar to these, but need to get the ones that fit your studs.Detroit Wheels 5000-O-4 - Mr. Lugnut Lug Nuts - JEGS

Lug nuts backing out?

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