Is it difficult to install long tube headers? Can it be done on jack stands? How well does the HTS coating on Mac headers hold up?
Mac 1 5/8 longtube install question
- Thread starter mustangdaren
- Start date
P.I.T.A. if you want my opinion. It's a little easier if you remove your steering shaft and sometimes the transmission and bellhousing too. It is possible to do it though, just not really worth it. The h.t.s. coating doesn't hold up worth a darn, installing the headers will wind up scratching the crap out of them and you will probably wind up buying a flaming river replacement steering shaft because the rag joint on the factory shaft will bind up against the tubing. Have you seen the latest muscle mustangs and fast fords dyno test on the headers? It looks like long tubes aren't worth all of the hype unless you have a straight race car and even then the 1 3/4 inch long tubes didn't do that much better than the other types. That's just my .02 though, it's your time.....
Wow man, i've never heard of having to remove the trany and bell to install LTs of any brand.....It seriously didnt take me 1 hour to install my LTs.
Jack up the front end, then unbolt the motor mounts and lift the engine. I used a pully type lift hanging from a rafter in my buddie's garage. One you've got the motor lifted and the old headers out, unbolt the steering column and pull it out. Then unbolt your starter and let it sit on the back of the K member. Slip both headers up from the bottom, then put in the first and last bolt for each header so they stay in place. You dont even have to put the gaskets in at this point. Bolt your starter back on, route your steering shaft through the header (which BTW, mine is stock OEM and the boot was fine after 19 years..) and bolt it back on. Lower the motor back down, or if you want this is a fine time to replace your motor mounts if you need to, since you're already in that neighborhood. Either way, bolt the motor back on and drop the car down. Put your gaskets on and bolt everything up. Piece of cake. The hardest pare was finding a garage to borrow with a hoist.
As for the HTS coating, it does get scratched up a bit. Even so, i've seen guys who have them on their cars for 3+ years without rusting so i'd say you're in the clear. For the price IMO you can't beat'em. If i had unlimited money though, i'd have Kooks headers or some kind of serious racing headers on my car. My motor is bone stock, intake to oil pan, and i can tell you the power gains were tremendous. After 3k RPM my car somes alive like no other, and there's no loss of torque below 3k either. I dont think i'll ever buy another shorty again unless it's to bolt a turbo to.
Another cool added little bonus about LTs is the mid-pipe (H,X, Pro Chamber...etc...) which i think is the biggest PITA when it comes to installing an exhaust setup. Since they're LTs, the mid pipe bolts up right there under the car behind the front wheels. If you ever get exhaust leaks at your header/H flange (which unfortunately you're going to have with MACs untill they get broke in and tightened up a few times) it's a lot easier to tighten with LTs rather than shorties.
Lastly, i think that dyno test with the shorties vs. LTs is TOTAL B.S. Think about this for a second....since the dawn of racing, full length headers have been used because it's a KNOWN FACT that they make more HP. We're not talking about the "latest fad" in headers here, we're talking about race proven technology. Everything from small town dirt oval racing, to off roading, to the local drag strip on test and tune night, to F'in John Force and his Top Fuel car, NASCAR, INDY, Formula 1, Cart, Le Mans, you name it, they're all using some sort of full length or somewhat equal length header because they flow more air and they equal out exhaust pulses better than shorties.
Jack up the front end, then unbolt the motor mounts and lift the engine. I used a pully type lift hanging from a rafter in my buddie's garage. One you've got the motor lifted and the old headers out, unbolt the steering column and pull it out. Then unbolt your starter and let it sit on the back of the K member. Slip both headers up from the bottom, then put in the first and last bolt for each header so they stay in place. You dont even have to put the gaskets in at this point. Bolt your starter back on, route your steering shaft through the header (which BTW, mine is stock OEM and the boot was fine after 19 years..) and bolt it back on. Lower the motor back down, or if you want this is a fine time to replace your motor mounts if you need to, since you're already in that neighborhood. Either way, bolt the motor back on and drop the car down. Put your gaskets on and bolt everything up. Piece of cake. The hardest pare was finding a garage to borrow with a hoist.
As for the HTS coating, it does get scratched up a bit. Even so, i've seen guys who have them on their cars for 3+ years without rusting so i'd say you're in the clear. For the price IMO you can't beat'em. If i had unlimited money though, i'd have Kooks headers or some kind of serious racing headers on my car. My motor is bone stock, intake to oil pan, and i can tell you the power gains were tremendous. After 3k RPM my car somes alive like no other, and there's no loss of torque below 3k either. I dont think i'll ever buy another shorty again unless it's to bolt a turbo to.
Another cool added little bonus about LTs is the mid-pipe (H,X, Pro Chamber...etc...) which i think is the biggest PITA when it comes to installing an exhaust setup. Since they're LTs, the mid pipe bolts up right there under the car behind the front wheels. If you ever get exhaust leaks at your header/H flange (which unfortunately you're going to have with MACs untill they get broke in and tightened up a few times) it's a lot easier to tighten with LTs rather than shorties.
Lastly, i think that dyno test with the shorties vs. LTs is TOTAL B.S. Think about this for a second....since the dawn of racing, full length headers have been used because it's a KNOWN FACT that they make more HP. We're not talking about the "latest fad" in headers here, we're talking about race proven technology. Everything from small town dirt oval racing, to off roading, to the local drag strip on test and tune night, to F'in John Force and his Top Fuel car, NASCAR, INDY, Formula 1, Cart, Le Mans, you name it, they're all using some sort of full length or somewhat equal length header because they flow more air and they equal out exhaust pulses better than shorties.
omnecide
New Member
it seems like alot of people have had alot of different experiences with them. I hear some people saying they go in easy and some people having to replace alot of stuff to get them in there. Guess theres only one way to find out. I already got my off road h-pipe just waiting for the cash to get the headers.
I have Mac LTs and O/R H....
The previous owner had a shop put them on... omg they leak and leak and leak and leak.
Did I metion they leak and can't be fixed by any shop I've taken them to. Including PJ's Speedshop (great shop here in Buffalo)
I don't know how much h/t they added, however I do admit the exaust sounds good....
Outside of that tat tat tat tat noise from underthe hood.
The previous owner had a shop put them on... omg they leak and leak and leak and leak.
Did I metion they leak and can't be fixed by any shop I've taken them to. Including PJ's Speedshop (great shop here in Buffalo)
I don't know how much h/t they added, however I do admit the exaust sounds good....
Outside of that tat tat tat tat noise from underthe hood.
cardudeusa
Founding Member
I have a set of Mac Lt's on my 90. What a PITA to install!! The HTS coating is rusted everywere theres a scratch. I would definatley go with LT's again, but not Mac.
I ran my car at the track pretty much bone stock other than a BBK CAI then after I put LT's (and complete exhaust) underdrives, and electric fan and got 1 full second quicker. Went from a 15.3 to a 14.3.
I ran my car at the track pretty much bone stock other than a BBK CAI then after I put LT's (and complete exhaust) underdrives, and electric fan and got 1 full second quicker. Went from a 15.3 to a 14.3.
GT Trooper
Member
I have BBK long tubes. Drivers side was a cake walk, passenger side P.I.T.A.. Sound and power make this mod worth while. In total it took me about four hours install time using jack stands and floor jacks to lift the engine a few inches to get the passenger side LT's in. Do it, as soon as you start your car when you are done you will be glad you did it.
I suggest staying away from MAC. Get the BBK jet coated anything. In a recent mustang mag I believe that the unequal shorties gave the most power(i cant understand why) so you might consider getting some shorties and saving some time and money in the long run. Seeing that you have a supercharger its going to be a pain in the @ss to install long tubes anyways. Nice stang by the way.
Kevin
Kevin
omnecide
New Member
no offense guys, but you might buy into those magazine dyno tests a little too much. They get paid to run those tests ya know.
The install is pretty simple, I just put LT on my 92 and it took my about an hour to get them in, just jack the motor up depending on which side you are installing and both sides pretty much fell in.. No problems at all.. Took me longer to get the damn exhaust to sit more than 2" off the ground..
Lefty44278
New Member
The HTS coating isn't worth it go with a ceramic or jet coat. My headers rusted in less than a year and now I am replacing them. With what, I still don't know yet.
As for installation, it depends how your luck is that day. I installed and uninstalled theses headers numerous times and each time I had a diffenent experience. Somedays I would have no trouble at all and others I had to take drastic measures and sometimes ending up breaking something.
Make sure you order the right part number. Mac makes two long tubes for 5-speed and auto. Some say there is no difference and only sell one part number but there are two part numbers for a reason.
As for installation, it depends how your luck is that day. I installed and uninstalled theses headers numerous times and each time I had a diffenent experience. Somedays I would have no trouble at all and others I had to take drastic measures and sometimes ending up breaking something.
Make sure you order the right part number. Mac makes two long tubes for 5-speed and auto. Some say there is no difference and only sell one part number but there are two part numbers for a reason.
cardudeusa
Founding Member
85_SS_302_Coupe said:
Yeah, I was thinking that, but why would BBK want you to put shorties instead of LT's? Long Tubes are alot more dough.
I have Mac shortys on the car and was planning on installing either the Mac or bbk longtubes. A lot of you are missing where the power gain is on the 5.0 magazine bbk dyno comparison. The longtubes are up almost 50ftlbs of torque over either shortys in the low rpm range and hang pretty close +/- a few horsepower in the upper rpm range. Most of your driving will be under 4k anyway. I think the differences would have been greater if they would have used the correct h-pipes for the headers. I have a short runner intake (no low rpm tq) and a supercharger is why I want to switch to the long tubes. I would really like to get some low rpm torque back and keep the short runner intake for the high rpm boost.
whitemustang89
Member
MAC ANYTHING SUCKS. no offense im not trying to flame you or anything but you shouldve just bought bbk. mac headers fit like dog crap. and they leak bad
You can solve your leaking Mac headers with metal header gaskets and stage 8 locking header bolts. Mine use to start leaking about every 6 months. Since I installed the stage 8 bolts I haven't had to touch them since 1996.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
ss93cobra - look closely at the data on the mm&ff dyno test. You're correct - their peak figures are practically all the same. But look at what happens down low. The long tubes make almost 20 more HP and 40 more ft-lbs of torque at 3000 rpm. I suspect the difference is even greater as you drop down the rpm level. For street cars with h/c/i that are a bit softer on the bottom, 40 ft-lbs at low rpm makes a HUGE difference in drivability.
Daren - the problem is that there's just no way to predict how good/poorly the long tubes are gonna fit, or how much trouble they'll be to install. Every car/engine is a bit different due to age, chassis flex, motor/tranny mount type and age, etc, and every brand of header is a bit different. In fact the quality on header manufacture is not that good in general - two of exactly the same kind of header can have tubes that are located as much as 1/2" differently. The clearances between headers and all the bits that can get in the way are simply different in every application. If you want absolute assurance that they'll go in, fit and have great coating there's only one course of action that will guarantee it. Order them bare or with the factory paint. Test install them - see what it takes to get them in, do any banging or adjusting you may need to for clearance. Bolt them completely up and drive the car - be sure that everything clears. Once you've know how to put them in and have them completely clear, pull them back off and have them ceramic coated - then put them back on. It's a pain - but you'll be guaranteed that they fit and have a great, undamaged coating. Any other approach with long tubes may result (not always, but maybe) in you having to beat up your pretty coating during the install.
Oh - 85_ss - the dyno test in question was all the same brand of header - BBK I think; unequal shorties vs equal shorties vs 1 5/8 LT's vs 1 3/4 LT's. Why would they "pay" the magazine to get a particular outcome? Why would the magazine want to skew the results?
Daren - the problem is that there's just no way to predict how good/poorly the long tubes are gonna fit, or how much trouble they'll be to install. Every car/engine is a bit different due to age, chassis flex, motor/tranny mount type and age, etc, and every brand of header is a bit different. In fact the quality on header manufacture is not that good in general - two of exactly the same kind of header can have tubes that are located as much as 1/2" differently. The clearances between headers and all the bits that can get in the way are simply different in every application. If you want absolute assurance that they'll go in, fit and have great coating there's only one course of action that will guarantee it. Order them bare or with the factory paint. Test install them - see what it takes to get them in, do any banging or adjusting you may need to for clearance. Bolt them completely up and drive the car - be sure that everything clears. Once you've know how to put them in and have them completely clear, pull them back off and have them ceramic coated - then put them back on. It's a pain - but you'll be guaranteed that they fit and have a great, undamaged coating. Any other approach with long tubes may result (not always, but maybe) in you having to beat up your pretty coating during the install.
Oh - 85_ss - the dyno test in question was all the same brand of header - BBK I think; unequal shorties vs equal shorties vs 1 5/8 LT's vs 1 3/4 LT's. Why would they "pay" the magazine to get a particular outcome? Why would the magazine want to skew the results?
My recent problem with their LTs was tightening the header bolts. Since they're pretty small bolts but they're really close to the pipes of the headers, you cant get a closed end wrench or socket around them so you're stuck using an open end wrench. I've tried Craftsman and Snap On open end wrenches thinking that it was just cheap ones that would spread and open up and strip my bolts, but they all did. I went out and bought some allen key style bolts and havent looked back. I agree with the BBK over MAC, but i still think it's a good product for a budget. I'm much wrather have something that's Jethot coated.
After reading the reviews I think I will go with the BBK. Seem to have a lot less complaints and fit problems.
88stangmangt
Active Member
i have bbk 1 5/8 long tubes a nice product i got them ceramic. they are in good condition still done the install on 2 cars now and dont mind it a bit just take the fan shroud/blade/clutch out (should even clear with that blower) 2 motor mounts and boom i could even slip my stock headers out without it raised they were such junk. if you have time and know what you are doing it is easy i used all my stock stuff over(i.e. steering shaft everthing) just make sure your motor mounts are in good condition. I am useing solid motor mounts with a blower brace so i dont throw belts 
Similar threads
