Major Problems after intake swap on carb'd 5.0

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 30, 2006

I swapped my stock '85 GT intake with a new Weiand Stealth, finally got everything back together, and now it won't start at all.

At first, I had the timing off, as it would sputter when I was cranking it, so I read up on setting the distributor, turned the motor by hand with my thumb over plug hole #1, got to TDC on the compression stroke, stabbed the distributor in perfect...still no start. Just cranks and cranks and cranks. Tried rotating it 180*, same thing still. Replaced the coil, cap, and rotor.....still nothing, just cranks and cranks, and now it won't even sputter. Anyone have any advice for me? I'm at my wits end, and I'm going to be needing my car very soon It's at the point where I just wish I had paid someone to do it for me, and it's not fun anymore

dastang2 · Jul 30, 2006

did you take the distributor out when you swapped. i take it you did since you are messing with it now. are you absolutely sure that the wires are back on right and it is not 180 out. have you tried putting gas down the carb. try that. are you even getting fuel and spark. maybe a vacuum leak or you are getting water in the cylinders do to bad gasket placements.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 30, 2006

dastang2 said:
did you take the distributor out when you swapped. i take it you did since you are messing with it now. are you absolutely sure that the wires are back on right and it is not 180 out. have you tried putting gas down the carb. try that. are you even getting fuel and spark. maybe a vacuum leak or you are getting water in the cylinders do to bad gasket placements.

Yeah I did, and yes, I also tried it 180* and it did the exact same thing. Putting gas down the carb makes it stutter more, but still just cranks and won't start. Is there a quick way to check for water in teh cylinders? I felt nothing when getting #1 to TDC, and I'm very sure the gaskets are on good, as I used studs and some silicone to hold them on while I lowered the intake on top.

When I pull the coil wire from the dist and try to crank it, I get no spark.

dastang2 · Jul 30, 2006

check to see if you have any burned wires or a connector on the ignition system. distributor wiring, coil, ext. check the spark plug for fuel. check for wetness, smell it. if you have a test light, clip it to a good ground and probe around at the distributor cap while somebody cranks it. you should see the light flash when the rotor comes into contact. when i put the motor 180 out, i just swap the wires one by one straight across from each other instead of turning the motor over one time and restabbing the distributor.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 30, 2006

dastang2 said:
check to see if you have any burned wires or a connector on the ignition system. distributor wiring, coil, ext. check the spark plug for fuel. check for wetness, smell it. if you have a test light, clip it to a good ground and probe around at the distributor cap while somebody cranks it. you should see the light flash when the rotor comes into contact. when i put the motor 180 out, i just swap the wires one by one straight across from each other instead of turning the motor over one time and restabbing the distributor.

Pos and Neg coil wires looked smoked, so I replaced them and still nothing. Don't have a test light...can I use a multimeter? Spark plug was dry with no fuel on it as well, which seems odd.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 30, 2006

I just went out and put some gas down into the carb, and cranked and it seemed to catch for about .5 seconds then nothing again.

dastang2 · Jul 30, 2006

yes you can use a multimeter although i have no idea what setting to use. is this a new or used carb. did you use it already or new to you. have you tried turning the distributor while cranking to see if it will start. do you have choke cleaner or ether. if so spray a short burst in the while cranking but don't do a lot or engine damage can happen.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 30, 2006

dastang2 said:
yes you can use a multimeter although i have no idea what setting to use. is this a new or used carb. did you use it already or new to you. have you tried turning the distributor while cranking to see if it will start. do you have choke cleaner or ether. if so spray a short burst in the while cranking but don't do a lot or engine damage can happen.

I had to reuse my stock Holley, my new carb is 2 hours away at my apartment. In order to turn the dizzy while the car is cranking, do I pull it out some and then turn it or what?

dastang2 · Jul 30, 2006

no just loosen the hold down bolt until you can turn the distributor freely. turn the dizzy slowly little at a time while cranking. what are you doing with the stock carb when you are finished with it. i am in need of a test carb to see if it fixes my new headed engine.

dragnazz5.0 · Jul 30, 2006

y0u replaced the wires g0ing t0 the c0il and it still w0nt start. is the c0il firing n0w? take the multimeter and put it 0n the 0hm setting. disc0nnect the c0il wire and the p0sitive and negative wires fr0m the c0il. put the meter 0n the p0sitive and negative side. there sh0uld be c0ntinuity. n0w put the meter 0n the p0sitive side and where the c0il wire g0es. there sh0uld als0 be c0ntinuity there but it sh0uld be fairly high resistance. als0 check f0r 12v at the c0il while cranking. if the wire l00ked fried m0re than likely s0mething else g0t fried al0ng with it. g00d luck man

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 30, 2006

dastang2 said:
no just loosen the hold down bolt until you can turn the distributor freely. turn the dizzy slowly little at a time while cranking. what are you doing with the stock carb when you are finished with it. i am in need of a test carb to see if it fixes my new headed engine.

That will turb the distributor and change the timing? I thought that just turns the housing, and the distroubtor shaft won't move?

When I get the new carb on, I will have no use for the old one. Granted I ever get this goddamn thing running again

dragnazz5.0 said:
y0u replaced the wires g0ing t0 the c0il and it still w0nt start. is the c0il firing n0w? take the multimeter and put it 0n the 0hm setting. disc0nnect the c0il wire and the p0sitive and negative wires fr0m the c0il. put the meter 0n the p0sitive and negative side. there sh0uld be c0ntinuity. n0w put the meter 0n the p0sitive side and where the c0il wire g0es. there sh0uld als0 be c0ntinuity there but it sh0uld be fairly high resistance. als0 check f0r 12v at the c0il while cranking. if the wire l00ked fried m0re than likely s0mething else g0t fried al0ng with it. g00d luck man

Heh let me guess, broken O key? I replaced the wires because they looked cracked, I'm going to have to do the multimeter test tomorrow, as I cleaned up for the night at 11pm (FOR THE SECOND NIGHT!)

Here are some pics I snapped tonight:

Work area for two nights in a row

How the motor and everything looks.

Distributor. The motor is at 0* TDC on the compression stroke, and the rotor lines up perfectly with the #1 on top of the distrubutor cap.

Better Lighting

Anyone see anything abnormal?

Well that's it for me tonight, I've been working on this since Friday, day and night, and it's time to get some rest

Dark Knight · Jul 31, 2006

Do you have the right firing order? 13726548 counter clockwise. Hard to tell, but it looks like you have it clockwise.
http://boxwrench.net/specs/ford_302_351W.htm

Turning the housing with the bolt loose will change the initial timing. Pull one of the sight plugs on the side of the carb to make sure you have fuel too.

jrichker · Jul 31, 2006

Cranks Ok but no start for carb’d cars.

Carb'd cars require an old time approach to troubleshooting.

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw with the red wire to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Coil
B. ) Distributor PIP sensor or points & condenser
C.) No power to ignition system wiring or ignition box (if used)
D.) Bad ignition switch
E.) Bad fuse links.
AutoZone wiring diagrams

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model Mustangs

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model Mustangs

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model Mustangs

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
4.) Pull the air cleaner and sniff for fuel vapor - look for signs of flooding. If so, then press the accelerator to the floor and crank for a while – if the engine is flooded, this will clear it out. You may want to have a jumper battery & cables handy.
5.) Electric fuel pump if you have one, is it getting power? Use a volt meter or test light to probe the wires at the pump.

Don't see any evidence of flooding? Then pump the throttle - does the accelerator pump squirt fuel? If so then you should have enough fuel to start the engine. If not look for fuel delivery problems. Check the fuel pump, and fuel filter. Remember that most carbs have a fuel inlet filter that protects the float needle valve from trash.

Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct. If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased. If the engine starts now, you have a fuel delivery problem.

6.) Fuel & ignition OK:
Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Check to verify that it is indeed an HO engine. Remove the #1 & #3 spark plugs. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Slowly turn the engine until the TDC mark and the timing pointer line up. Mark TDC on the balancer with chalk or paint. Put your finger in #3 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. You should feel pressure trying to blow past your finger. If you do not feel pressure, repeat the process again. If you feel pressure, it is a HO engine.

No pressure the second time, remove spark plug #5. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Put your finger in #5 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. If you feel pressure now, the engine is not a HO model, no matter what it says on the engine.

Using a small carpenter or machinist square to mark the harmonic balancer off into 90 degree sections may be helpful here.

A 15/16 deep socket & breaker bar or ratchet may be used to turn the engine.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 31, 2006

Dark Knight said:
Do you have the right firing order? 13726548 counter clockwise. Hard to tell, but it looks like you have it clockwise.
http://boxwrench.net/specs/ford_302_351W.htm

Turning the housing with the bolt loose will change the initial timing. Pull one of the sight plugs on the side of the carb to make sure you have fuel too.

Umm, what and where is teh sight plug?

Dark Knight · Jul 31, 2006

The screw on the side of the bowl on the carb. Left side. There are two, one towards the front, one towards the back.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 31, 2006

Carb is getting fuel. I redid everything and used the correct firing order, cranked it and gave it some gas...and I got FLAMES coming out of the carb!!! Shocked

So on some advice that the timing was retarded to far, I loosen the dist hold down bolt some and turned the distributor towards the water neck some, clockwise.

Went back out, turned it towards the waterneck as far as I could, and it Started...for about a second, longer than ever before, and then spat some more fireballs and caught the carb on fire. If I weren't working on this car, I would be laughing at myself.

OK, so I can't turn the dizzy any more towards the water neck, and it's almost starting. SHould I try flipping it 180*? Or just keep turning it somehow?

Am I too far towards the waterneck? I only turned it like 1.5'' before the vac advance hit the waterneck.

dragnazz5.0 · Jul 31, 2006

unb0lt the dizzy and pull it 0ut just en0ugh t0 get it t0 c0me 0ff the cam gear. n0w turn the r0t0r c0unter cl0ckwise ab0ut 15-20* until it will slide back d0wn int0 the m0t0r. b0lt it d0wn and see what happens. its still retarded t00 far.

edit: 0r y0u c0uld just try m0ving all the wires 0n the cap 1 terminal. it l00ks like they are 0ff anyways, unless im just retarded. #1 plug wire sh0uld be 0n the left side 0f the cap, n0t the right.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 31, 2006

dragnazz5.0 said:
unb0lt the dizzy and pull it 0ut just en0ugh t0 get it t0 c0me 0ff the cam gear. n0w turn the r0t0r c0unter cl0ckwise ab0ut 15-20* until it will slide back d0wn int0 the m0t0r. b0lt it d0wn and see what happens. its still retarded t00 far.

edit: 0r y0u c0uld just try m0ving all the wires 0n the cap 1 terminal. it l00ks like they are 0ff anyways, unless im just retarded. #1 plug wire sh0uld be 0n the left side 0f the cap, n0t the right.

Hmm I have it on the right...are you sure it's supposed to be pointing towards the left? The cap has a #1 stamped on the right side. I'm going to go out and try to rotate the dizzy like you said.

dragnazz5.0 · Jul 31, 2006

well the cap might be f0r a n0n h0 m0t0r, it sh0uldnt really matter i w0uldnt think. just try t0 pull the dizzy and get it 0ne t00th c0unter cl0ckwise and see what happens.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 31, 2006

dragnazz5.0 said:
well the cap might be f0r a n0n h0 m0t0r, it sh0uldnt really matter i w0uldnt think. just try t0 pull the dizzy and get it 0ne t00th c0unter cl0ckwise and see what happens.

Just did that, and now the car is backfiring through the exhaust intermitently.

Major Problems after intake swap on carb'd 5.0

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