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Manual Steering: Ok for a DD?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 94-302-vert
  • Start date Start date May 15, 2010

94-302-vert

Active Member
Aug 16, 2004
1,947
2
36
NE CT
May 15, 2010
#1
  • May 15, 2010
  • #1
So I had a couple tires put on the car yesterday and they told me I needed inner and outer tire rods. Now my rack has a really bad dead spot, my power steering pump is starting to whne and the fluid has always been black with metal in it (I have run at least a dozen quarts of flid through this over the years) stays the same.

So since I am looking at either an entire rack, PS pump, etc. I was really thinking manual steering to clean up the engine bay a little as well. Who has actually done flaming river conversion and how bad is it to live with every day? I live in the country not the city so that should help a lot (not many slow speed turns).

Also what P/N kit from flaming river would I need?
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,296
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Acworth, GA
May 15, 2010
#2
  • May 15, 2010
  • #2
Most people who do it use it for drag racing. It's ok when you have skinny tires up front, but if you have wide tires up front, it's very hard to turn. If you get the flaming river setup, you also have to get the stronger steering shaft. It's going to run you about $400. A factory replacement rack is pretty cheap. Don't bother just changing the inner tie rod ends. Once you pay for those, you might as well have just gotten a whole new rack. Something to consider on the outer tie rod ends regardless of which rack you get. When you replace the outer tie rod ends, consider getting a bump steer kit. It makes alignment adjustments easier. It's about $40 more than just changing the outer tie rod ends.

Kurt
 

94-302-vert

Active Member
Aug 16, 2004
1,947
2
36
NE CT
May 15, 2010
#3
  • May 15, 2010
  • #3
I do have 275 tires in front. But when you are moving how bad is it? two hands at all times bad???
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,296
1,640
214
Acworth, GA
May 16, 2010
#4
  • May 16, 2010
  • #4
Yeah, it's pretty bad. I think it might be one of those things that would sway you against driving the car as often as you would like too. Unless it's your daily, which is going to make you not want to drive at all. When you go to 275 tires up front, you can feel it get harder even with power steering up front.

Kurt
 

02 281 GT

Agreed...My wife has great Boobs
15 Year Member
Feb 3, 2009
3,208
1,972
194
Cabot, AR
May 16, 2010
#5
  • May 16, 2010
  • #5
It'll be pretty difficult with 275s. Find a hill somewhere, kill the car, and let it roll a bit and you'll see.
 

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
5,125
3,091
214
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
May 16, 2010
#6
  • May 16, 2010
  • #6
My power steering pump starting squealing, and I thought of doing the same thing. I pulled the pump off and ran a short belt for a day. Going around town wasnt that bad with my 255's, but I tried to take a curve on a country road at 70 and could barely keep the car in my lane. I bought a new power steering pump right after that... Not sure how much the FR rack would help, but its not for me.
 

Last5.0

Active Member
Nov 9, 2003
404
1
26
May 16, 2010
#7
  • May 16, 2010
  • #7
Unless you've changed any of your front end geometry (changed from non stock spindles, A-arms, ball joint design, or rack location, etc), you will be wasting your money on bump steer adjustable tie rod ends.
 

OrangeMustangGt

Founding Member
Mar 7, 2002
1,976
0
36
Cape Cod, MA
May 17, 2010
#8
  • May 17, 2010
  • #8
I just did a steering rack. It was super easy. it was only $150 or so.

I have lowering springs, so I installed a set of offset rack bushings. worked out great
 

1slow95

Founding Member
May 16, 2002
1,797
3
48
ohio
May 17, 2010
#9
  • May 17, 2010
  • #9
I was looking into this because removing the ps pump would make my turbo install much easier. I loved the manual steering in my old RX-7, but that was a ~2400# car with super small tires on it. The 3350# Mustang with 275's up front wouldn't be very fun imo.
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,296
1,640
214
Acworth, GA
May 17, 2010
#10
  • May 17, 2010
  • #10
Last5.0 said:
Unless you've changed any of your front end geometry (changed from non stock spindles, A-arms, ball joint design, or rack location, etc), you will be wasting your money on bump steer adjustable tie rod ends.
Click to expand...

Come on, how many Mustang owners actually intend to keep the stock ride height forever.

Kurt
 

Last5.0

Active Member
Nov 9, 2003
404
1
26
May 17, 2010
#11
  • May 17, 2010
  • #11
Didn't say anything about ride hight. You can lower the car with shorter/stiffer springs and still not need bump steer ends because the suspension pivot points are still the same. It's when you start swapping to different spindles or control arms that change the original suspension geometry of the car and you will need the bump steer rod ends.


Some good (and true) info here....
There's a rampant internet misunderstanding that the relationship of the tie rods to the ground matters to bumpsteer. What matters is the tie rods' relationship to the A-arms. More specifically, the line described by the tie rod pivot points needs to be parallel to the line described by the arm's pivot points, so that they follow the same arc when they move. Bumpsteer comes from the steering knuckle following an arc that has a different pattern than the one the balljoint follows. If you don't change the pivot points' relationship to one another, you don't change the bumpsteer characteristics. The factory characteristics are pretty good to start with, so unless you've radically slammed it, nothing's going to change much as far as bumpsteer.

If all you do is lower the car by shortening the springs, then all the suspension knows is now it's compressed a little more. The bumpsteer characteristics are the same as if you added a bunch of weight to the car and lowered it that way.

If you start changing the underlying geometry, changing the pivot points' relationship by moving the rack up or down, moving the steering knuckle up or down, moving the A-arm mounts up or down, or moving the balljoint pivot up or down, then you've changed the bumpsteer characteristics, because now you've made the arcs different.

Think of it as a parallelogram when looking at one wheel's suspension from the front. Lower the car? Raise one side of the parallelogram, but it's still a parallelogram. Move one corner of the parallelogram without moving the other three, then you no longer have a parallellogram. Now you need a bumpsteer kit to move the odd corner back into place.
Click to expand...
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,296
1,640
214
Acworth, GA
May 17, 2010
#12
  • May 17, 2010
  • #12
I think the primary advantage of the bump steer kit is that it has a double adjustment screw, so you don't have to bust the ball joint ends out everytime you make an adjustment.

Kurt
 

94-302-vert

Active Member
Aug 16, 2004
1,947
2
36
NE CT
May 17, 2010
#13
  • May 17, 2010
  • #13
So has anyone actually put manual steering on and HATED it?
 

hollywoodstang

Active Member
May 23, 2006
1,095
2
36
May 17, 2010
#14
  • May 17, 2010
  • #14
I wouldn't do it, My rack went bad and had to drive like that for 20 miles, Hated it, If it's a street car, you want the power steering, i am replacing my rack and pump and lines, I NEED the power steering
 

Adam95GT

New Member
Aug 14, 2006
2,564
3
0
Burlington, NJ
May 17, 2010
#15
  • May 17, 2010
  • #15
hollywoodstang said:
I wouldn't do it, My rack went bad and had to drive like that for 20 miles, Hated it, If it's a street car, you want the power steering, i am replacing my rack and pump and lines, I NEED the power steering
Click to expand...

PS rack with no PS is harder to turn than a manual rack... ive considered switching but untill my car makes like 500rwhp... its not worth it..


And i got a brand new rack for free it would suck not to use it...
 

94-302-vert

Active Member
Aug 16, 2004
1,947
2
36
NE CT
Jun 1, 2010
#16
  • Jun 1, 2010
  • #16
I'd still like to hear one person that put a 1508-Q FR rack on their car and hated it....
 

nmcgrawj

Advanced Member
Sep 28, 2003
3,651
4
68
Indianapolis, IN
Jun 2, 2010
#17
  • Jun 2, 2010
  • #17
Expand this question to the corral, to the 87-93 guys, and to hardcore 50. You're not gonna get many with experience concerning this question here.
 

94-302-vert

Active Member
Aug 16, 2004
1,947
2
36
NE CT
Jun 4, 2010
#18
  • Jun 4, 2010
  • #18
Thanks. I actualy ordered the rack yesterday so I should have it in hand to install in a week or so...
 

4Jenna

Founding Member
Sep 12, 2001
4,326
6
69
AZ
Jun 4, 2010
#19
  • Jun 4, 2010
  • #19
I run manual steering, it was tuff to turn at slow speeds on the 18" Saleens and 245's.

With the skinnies its no biggy

-CE
 
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