Mass Air

Xaranthu · Mar 27, 2004

Stinger said:
X: What MSD are you talking about? I've never heard of what you are saying.

The IC is out of a Mitsu FK diesel truck...very similar to the NPR...only cheaper, wider, and with bigger in/outlet.

Stinger

Mitsu KF - perfect, I like cheaper. I'm on the hunt.

The MSD 6BTM, PN 6462 - go to http://www.msdignition.com/ and it's the 6th one in the list on the automotive page.

I met a guy at the FFW in Ohio last year and he was using this system. The only mods he had on the car were the MSD6, Large NPR, T3/T4 57 trim, and 45lb injectors. No MAF, No VAM, No ported head, No need. After a dyno tune on Saturday afternoon he pulled 312 HP out of the setup. I still need to pick his brains on the configuration, but as far as I know the only thing he needed to add was the ACT sensor that is usually in the VAM. He ran a 13.5 on street tires on Sunday and a 13.1 at another event 2 weeks later.

Z.

tiny4lx · Mar 27, 2004

call me stupid,but how does the 6btm keep you from not running any type of maf or vam? Let me know im very interested. That set up looks like the one i put in my t/c.

Xaranthu · Mar 27, 2004

I just sent Matt (owner of the car) an email. I'll post the info as soon as I get it. If all goes well and he is still at that email addy, we should have an advanced idea how it all works. If I don't get anything from him, you'll have to wait till I get it set up and write the article on it. This car is on a tight time frame, it needs to be done by the end of May at the latest. If I don't get to it before then, it will happen after Carlisle.

Z.

Stinger · Mar 27, 2004

Hmm...I don't understand how the 6btm could allow him to not run an air meter of any sort...the BTM (boost timing master) is just a regular MSD box but it retards timing under boost as well.

Not saying you are lieing...just saying it doesn't make sense....I think he was holding out on you and there is more to it.

Stinger

Xaranthu · Mar 27, 2004

Could be, but I had a good look under that hood and there was no meter. I even commented on it, asked him where the MAF was if there was no VAM and he said the system allowed him to eliminate it. We'll see when I get the mail exactly whats going on under that hood.

P.S. I don't lie unless I need to and I think the need pretty much went away when I left home 15 years ago. It is however true that I don't have all the facts and could be mistaken, so this should be relegated to a possibility. I did find it hard to wrap my head around it too; - how is AF regulated - but only Matt can answer that. BTW, when I first came across the car, he was running rich and only put down 272 or so. He tuned it later in the day. The run I have on video is a 14.1 pass @ 100 – he missed third. I've got plenty of space and bandwidth to host it if anyone would like to see it. He was racing a white 5.0

Z.

Stinger · Mar 27, 2004

That tells me something right there...how could he tune it if he's still using the stock computer and such. The ability to tune like that says he's probably using a standalone system or something. Who knows though.

Stinger

Pro-Hawk · Mar 27, 2004

I'm as puzzled as the next guy?

tiny4lx · Mar 28, 2004

wtf, cant waite to hear this one[im puzzled]

Xaranthu · Mar 28, 2004

SDS

Matt and Craig both use them. I looked it up and recognized the hand unit. Matt did show me, but it slipped my mind - consider it a product of my head injury back in Sep.

Quick search found...

"The WMS / SDS is available as a plug in system for the Ford EEC equipped 5.0, 351W, 460, and 2.3. Of course most systems are used in 86-95 Mustangs but 86-95 Ford truck owners find our SDS system a far more powerful alternative to mass air conversions."

http://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/sds.htm

Get out your wallet if you want to go with this, it will cost you.

I'm still going this way. It totally eliminates bottle necks and I'd rather just do the intake from cone to head once.

Z.

Xaranthu · Mar 28, 2004

Now how is it possible to dbl post with RR.

Cougar · Mar 28, 2004

I think you could convert the stock ECU to SD if you made a few new functions to calculate airflow. It wouldn't be easy, but if someone did it, they could just save the memory file and people could just load that into their tuner.

Stinger · Mar 28, 2004

Yep...standalone system as I mentioned above...I knew it couldn't be the MSD box (you had me wondering though).

Stinger

Pro-Hawk · Mar 29, 2004

Stinger said:
(you had me wondering though). Stinger

You and everyone else

I thought that was what Craig was using. How much does this set up run anyways? Does this set all you need to run with or do you need to use a tunner also?

Thanks

Stinger · Mar 29, 2004

SDS is a little over a grand I think. It's called a "standalone" because it's everything your car needs to run. No stock computer, no tuner, nothing else needed...it replaces everything. It also starts out with no tune so you have to start from scratch to get it running.

Stinger

Pro-Hawk · Mar 29, 2004

Xaranthu said:
"The WMS / SDS is available as a plug in system for the Ford EEC equipped 5.0, 351W, 460, and 2.3. Of course most systems are used in 86-95 Mustangs but 86-95 Ford truck owners find our SDS system a far more powerful alternative to mass air conversions."

http://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/sds.htm

Crap I just got through checking out the site and I want one If you buy one let us know how it works out because if its good I will be right behind ya. That is so cool how its replaces the EEC all togather, heck I think it chunks the VAM also I think you need a MAP sensor which I'm not sure where that goes are what it looks like I've always has MAF or VAMS.

Stinger · Mar 29, 2004

Just a little FYI...it's not exactly "easy" to use unless you've got a damn good knowledge base.

Xaranthu · Mar 29, 2004

True. It will take some reading and you'll come to know more than you ever wanted to about engine control managment.

You have a map sensor in your car already.

Passenger side fender

Go here to learn about the MAP/BP

Pro-Hawk · Mar 29, 2004

Stinger said:
Just a little FYI...it's not exactly "easy" to use unless you've got a damn good knowledge base.

This is true but I think it would be a good deal to have. They say on there page:

"Comes with pre-programmed fuel and timing curves to allow initial start up. Once your engine is running, tuning is easy to complete. "

So hopefully with this and a bit of research I can get it up and running in a hour or two I emailed them with a few questions and I'll go from there.

P.S. Thanks for the MAP pic, now I know what and where it is

kiddiccarus · Mar 29, 2004

Sounds like a good investment for a little over a grand because it does eliminate a lot of things. Like Cougar stated if someone can do this and save the file Plus share the wealth of that file. It can make the inital tune easier for others, of course some minor tuning after that for the individual may be needed.

Xaranthu · Mar 29, 2004

kiddiccarus said:
Sounds like a good investment for a little over a grand because it does eliminate a lot of things. Like Cougar stated if someone can do this and save the file Plus share the wealth of that file. It can make the inital tune easier for others, of course some minor tuning after that for the individual may be needed.

It could save a bit of time if it's even possible, but if you think about it, once you get to this point in modifications - spending 1K on an engine management system and $400 on spark - you are far from stock... or should be. Mods may very across the board so this is something that would need to be fine tuned for each application no matter what. You are wide open for injector selection, but everything done to the engine is going to have an effect on what (tune) works best for your car. We will know more once a few of us have them installed; have a good idea on exactly how hard it actually is/isn't. Be prepared to spend some time on the dyno getting the A/F pinned down too.

One thing that will be a must is the MSD. The stock system will not perform well over the 300 HP mark from what I've heard, so out the door cost is going to be $1600+. I'm going to do some price searching.

Is it worth trying to set up a group buy on this?

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