Mod Motor Guru's, PLEASE share your knowledge.....

#21
Well, still plugging away at the whole PI thing. Sorry I haven't been able to reply back in a few days, just finished my 3.73 gear install. :nice:

Anyhow, I have ran across another set of PI heads. These come from a 2002 F150 5.4L. The casting number listed is: RF-XL3E-6090-C20D i'm betting that the C20D listed is actually CZ0D.

My question here, these are 5.4L heads, will they bolt to the 4.6? I'm sure i've read somewhere that the 5.4 and 4.6 2V share the same heads.

If they will interchange, this is bascially the same head on the '99 and '00 stangs right? Should be windsor heads?

If so, are the Windsor PI heads like the romeo's, all have the same CC chamber?



Thought i'd share a few gear install pics.......

WARNING-LARGE PICS Broadband users only

http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00002.JPG
http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00003.JPG
http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00007.JPG
http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00008.JPG
 
#22
85 Coupe 5.0 said:
Well, still plugging away at the whole PI thing. Sorry I haven't been able to reply back in a few days, just finished my 3.73 gear install. :nice:

Anyhow, I have ran across another set of PI heads. These come from a 2002 F150 5.4L. The casting number listed is: RF-XL3E-6090-C20D i'm betting that the C20D listed is actually CZ0D.

My question here, these are 5.4L heads, will they bolt to the 4.6? I'm sure i've read somewhere that the 5.4 and 4.6 2V share the same heads.

If they will interchange, this is bascially the same head on the '99 and '00 stangs right? Should be windsor heads?

If so, are the Windsor PI heads like the romeo's, all have the same CC chamber?



Thought i'd share a few gear install pics.......

WARNING-LARGE PICS Broadband users only

http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00002.JPG
http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00003.JPG
http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00007.JPG
http://members.cox.net/aledesma/DSC00008.JPG
Click to expand...

Glad to hear the gear install went well!!:nice:
Yes the 5.4 truck heads are Windsors, they have the cc chamber as the Romeo's, it's just that you'd need the valve covers too as your's won't fit. You'll also need the front timing cover/head bolts [4 on each side] as they too will be different than the Romeos. It's a little more work and money going to the Windsor heads but they will work just as well. Given the choice, I'd stick with the Romeo heads.
Whatever used heads you get, it would be a good idea to have them checked for cracks and warpage, as you'd really hate to find that out after you have them on. Buying used heads is always a bit of a gamble as they may have come off of a wrecked vehicle that may have been over heated due to front end damage or lack of oil [scored cam lobes].
One other consideration is to swap out the intake and cams for the PI's. Not quite as much of a Hp gain, but it's alot cheaper and easier.
 
#23
CanadaStang said:
Glad to hear the gear install went well!!:nice:
Yes the 5.4 truck heads are Windsors, they have the cc chamber as the Romeo's, it's just that you'd need the valve covers too as your's won't fit. You'll also need the front timing cover/head bolts [4 on each side] as they too will be different than the Romeos. It's a little more work and money going to the Windsor heads but they will work just as well. Given the choice, I'd stick with the Romeo heads.
Whatever used heads you get, it would be a good idea to have them checked for cracks and warpage, as you'd really hate to find that out after you have them on. Buying used heads is always a bit of a gamble as they may have come off of a wrecked vehicle that may have been over heated due to front end damage or lack of oil [scored cam lobes].
One other consideration is to swap out the intake and cams for the PI's. Not quite as much of a Hp gain, but it's alot cheaper and easier.
Click to expand...

I have considered the intake/cam swap, but really want to get the full potential from the PI swap, with the PI's having bigger exhaust valves and better low lift flow numbers, in addition to the upped compression.

I knew about the bolts/covers, that shouldn't be a big deal as i can probably get the covers with the heads.

yea, with used heads you do take a chance, and I plan on having them checked before install.

So the same facts still hold true:

1. There is only 1 Romeo PI casting.
2. There is only 1 Windsor casting.
3. They are both identical except for cam caps, valve covers and timing cover studs.
4. Both will preform the same when bolted to a non-pi 4.6L.
5. Both Windsor and Romeo heads can be swapped from side to side, so long as appropriate cams are used.

extremely great info so far canadastang, thanks!
 
#24
blackfang said:
Iould you ask a guy at Jiffy Lube how to build a 11 second naturally aspirated 2v or a guy who does it for a living for some of the NMRA and FFW guys?
Click to expand...
So everyone here works at juffy lube. This is a DYI swap, no pro engine builder needed :rlaugh: You and others like you turn this tech into garbage.
 
#25
85 Coupe 5.0 said:
I have considered the intake/cam swap, but really want to get the full potential from the PI swap, with the PI's having bigger exhaust valves and better low lift flow numbers, in addition to the upped compression.

I knew about the bolts/covers, that shouldn't be a big deal as i can probably get the covers with the heads.

yea, with used heads you do take a chance, and I plan on having them checked before install.

So the same facts still hold true:

1. There is only 1 Romeo PI casting.
2. There is only 1 Windsor casting.
3. They are both identical except for cam caps, valve covers and timing cover studs.
4. Both will preform the same when bolted to a non-pi 4.6L.
5. Both Windsor and Romeo heads can be swapped from side to side, so long as appropriate cams are used.

extremely great info so far canadastang, thanks!
Click to expand...

1) I know of two casting numbers: RF1L2E-6090-D22D and RF1L2E-6090-D24D there may be others but they are essentially the same head.
2) That I am aware of yes [for the PI]
3) Pretty much, yup
4) Yes sir!!
5) Yip!!
Someone like Randy Stichcomb would be able to tell you more about the diferences in casting numbers in case I missed or left something out, you could send him a PM if he doesn't chime in.
 
#26
good catch on the Romeo D22 and D24's, forgot about that one. :nice:

Wow, this has to be one of the best PI threads yet, I really didn't expect this to go this good, many, many thanks to all the people who have contributed thus far!

So just as I suspected the Ford manuals that I have seen are B/S as far as specs go. According to them the only PI head with the smaller chambers came on Mustang. The rest, Explorer, F150 5.4 had a larger cc chamber. But I could not figure out how that could be if there were only 1 or so casting numbers for a PI head, be it a Romeo or Windsor.

Now that i've had some very good technical info from people here on stangnet that have actually done the swap and know the real world info, it makes much more sense.

well, now for the hard part. I really would like to go Romeo because of the simplicity. But, if the guy gets back to me on the Windsor's i'll probably go that route.

My next question, the cams. Being they are F150 cams, they will need to be changed. The Windsor uses pressed-on camshaft sprockets. whereas Romeo uses bolt-on.

Are they interchangeable?

If i pick up the Windsor heads, am I stuck to using '99 and '00 Mustang cams because that's the only year they used Windsors in the stang? (do not take into account aftermarket cams.)

very much thanks to canadastang and everyone else!
 
#27
tomustang said:
So everyone here works at juffy lube. This is a DYI swap, no pro engine builder needed :rlaugh: You and others like you turn this tech into garbage.
Click to expand...
Hey, have you not seen our New Jiffy Headswap Dept.!! We'll have you in and out the door in 2 hours or less!! We'll even tow your car home for you for free if it doesn't start after the swap!!:canada:



:D
 
#28
tomustang said:
So everyone here works at juffy lube. This is a DYI swap, no pro engine builder needed :rlaugh: You and others like you turn this tech into garbage.
Click to expand...
That was a comparision bright one. Nothing gets by you I see.A DYI where there is questions on what heads that is 2 pages so far without an answer.

Yet this thread would have been answered on page one, and he still is looking for an answer and I know where he can find it. Oh well still look for the answer then man.
Got to love people who are too damn hardheaded to go talk to people who build engines and have to use stock parts for their class in the NMRA;) Someone who knows the secret in building a 327 rwhp 2V with stock parts would be someone I would ask for help.

I will forward this to him;)
 
#31
85 Coupe 5.0 said:
good catch on the Romeo D22 and D24's, forgot about that one. :nice:

Wow, this has to be one of the best PI threads yet, I really didn't expect this to go this good, many, many thanks to all the people who have contributed thus far!

So just as I suspected the Ford manuals that I have seen are B/S as far as specs go. According to them the only PI head with the smaller chambers came on Mustang. The rest, Explorer, F150 5.4 had a larger cc chamber. But I could not figure out how that could be if there were only 1 or so casting numbers for a PI head, be it a Romeo or Windsor.

Now that i've had some very good technical info from people here on stangnet that have actually done the swap and know the real world info, it makes much more sense.

well, now for the hard part. I really would like to go Romeo because of the simplicity. But, if the guy gets back to me on the Windsor's i'll probably go that route.

My next question, the cams. Being they are F150 cams, they will need to be changed. The Windsor uses pressed-on camshaft sprockets. whereas Romeo uses bolt-on.

Are they interchangeable?

If i pick up the Windsor heads, am I stuck to using '99 and '00 Mustang cams because that's the only year they used Windsors in the stang? (do not take into account aftermarket cams.)

very much thanks to canadastang and everyone else!
Click to expand...
The cams do have different part numbers but just for kicks I measured a set of '02 Romeo PI cams from a Stang engine and a set of '00 Windsor Truck 5.4L PI cams with a degree wheel and they were within a couple of degrees of each other, even the lift was within .002 ~.004.
The Romeo and Windsor cams are interchangable [same cams, it's just the way the cam gear mounts to the cam, that is different], you'll just have to buy new cam gears if you use Romeo cams, the Windsor cam gears are not removable.

Edit: Oh, and your very welcome.:nice:
 
#32
Yes, those are indeed PI heads. BTW, PI heads have a chamber size of ~43.5CC, not 42cc as SHM likes to state. The romeo plant would send back all heads that were under 43cc. I've tested many, and this is fact.

Also, the mustang and truck longblocks are the same, only difference are the intakes. (exc explorers, because they have an aluminum block)
 
#34
2002mustanggt said:
Yes, those are indeed PI heads. BTW, PI heads have a chamber size of ~43.5CC, not 42cc as SHM likes to state. The romeo plant would send back all heads that were under 43cc. I've tested many, and this is fact.

Also, the mustang and truck longblocks are the same, only difference are the intakes. (exc explorers, because they have an aluminum block)
Click to expand...
Correct!! Also, the Pi chambers are indeed 43.5ish cc's. One thing to add is that the truck long block 5.4L is physically taller than the 4.6, but the heads are the same as that used on the 4.6L Windsor.
 
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