4.6 motor guru's please help!

Rougestang

Member
Jun 12, 2007
59
0
6
florida
Hey guys,


I have a 2000 Mustang GT. Well threw a connecting rod in cylinder #8. Since it's in need of a new motor, I've been looking for something to put in there while I build the 4.6 that is bad. I found what I'm hoping is a junkyard jewel, but before I go ahead and get it I need some help. The motor is out of a 99 Lincoln town car. The guy only wants 50.00 for it. It's in great shape. Here are some numbers off the motor I'm looking at:

Heads: RF-F5AE-6090

Block: (was Hard to read) XY827628

Timing cover: F8ZE-6C086-BA

back of block above crank: F5AE-6K318-AA

Now, I know this is a romeo Block, giving its a 6 bolt crank, not a 8 bolt. and the valve covers are 11 bolt. Here are questions:

1) is this a NPI motor?

2) If it is, can I switch over my PI Windsor heads (using the Windsor timing cover)

3) Will this motor sync up to my T-45 Tranny with a 6 bolt flywheel?

4) if it will sync up, what all will I need for the whole swap?



Thank you in advance for any help you can give me. I'm in a bind, I've got no money to get something really good, heck, I can barely make it from paycheck to paycheck, and I'm short on time.
 
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im almost a 100% sure its a npi motor, you can use your heads (pi) with the timing cover and valve covers along with the intake, keep in mind youll need new head bolts and it wont be a bad idea to have the heads checked. yes with the 6 bolt flywheel the t45 will bolt right up. and 4th youll just need time and make sure the other engine is a complete engine that your getting. now im telling you all this cause i just did the same exact swap a month ago. you can use eveything off your original engine, use your same wire harness, same c.o.p packs. just basicly unplug your engine, pull it, swap your heads, put the new engine in and plug it all back up. oh and btw im extremely jealous of the price tag, i payed 575 for my 80,000mile npi. oh and its not a bad idea to put a new timing set in it, its cheap insurance and a hell of a lot easier wit the engine out especilly when your already there doing the head swap.
 
Thanks for your input.... I'm pretty sure the motor is around 100K miles, but for 50 bucks I couldn't resist. MY buddy knows this guy and says he a reputable shop. The motors been sitting on a stand in his garage for a few months, trying to sell it. It's complete from intake to manifold (minus the A/C compressor, but I've got two of those anyways).I'm planning on buying a head swap kit, and using all the stuff from my old motor. I was just concerned about the t-45 syncing up, and the heads. For a back story, I just put another motor in this car a little over 4 months ago.......Don't ask me how I blew another angine just going back and forth to work, But i'm too broke to afford anything else right now. I'm thinking with the money I'm saving (BTW I'm doing the work myself at a buddy's shop) I may opt for a set of mild cams to go in while I've got her apart....Once it's tuned it should be a nice stout motor for the money.
 
Here is my take. The Town Car motor is a non-PI motor. If you swap heads, the compression ratio will rise by a point. This will be a premium only car.

The timing cover needs to stay with the block (the holes in the block need to match up with the cover).

There are several threads about a Windsor to Romeo swap (including mine). I am still in the process of installing the 2004 Romeo motor now (2000 Mustang GT Windsor). Motor in the car (fully dressed). Nothing hooked up as of yet. Hope to be driving in two weeks.

Parts to swap. Heads, intake, oil filter adapter, fuel injectors, COP’s, throttle body, oil pan oil pickup, dip stick tube(if you want the higher capacity oil pan), exhaust manifolds, wiring harness, heater return hard line.

I ran into interference problems with the oil sender and the block. Used a 90 degree elbow to re-locate the oil sender downward.

You will need to use the Romeo style serpentine belt routing with the extra idler pulley.

New parts, 6 bolt fly wheel, pilot bearing, serpentine belt (different length), gaskets. Depending upon the year the flywheel came from a new clutch may be needed (10.5” verses 11”), dip stick from a Romeo Mustang.

Good luck.
 
Ford Modular V-8 Engines Part 2 - Mustang & Fords Magazine

The motor is a NPI one. The TC didnt get a PI motor until like 2001 or 2002 just like the Crown Vic.

You would probably be better off selling your PI Heads and picking up a set of Romeo PI heads. You can just swap the heads over to the TC motor and use your PI Intake and TB/Plenum to make some more power. The problem that you would run into with this is you need Romeo valve covers too.

Keep your stock Windsor block and timing cover, you can build the motor with that block and probably reuse the crank. You can pick up a ported set of Windsors or save up for Trickflows and use either Romeo or Windsor valve covers with the TF's.

This is Josh, I believe we met at NMRA's not too long ago and if you are still local try looking through CR for some 4.6 stuff...

Mustang 4.6 Heads (PI), Cams, Valve Covers Heads and Camshafts since the Windsors are press on gears
USED PARTS LINC-TOWNCAR,VOYAGER,LINC-CONTINENTAL,NEON Steal some parts off of these other NPI motors
99 FORD EXPEDITION XLT FOR PARTS Motor

Just do a little bit of shopping, and go to a couple you pull its we got around here.
 
Here is my take. The Town Car motor is a non-PI motor. If you swap heads, the compression ratio will rise by a point. This will be a premium only car.

The timing cover needs to stay with the block (the holes in the block need to match up with the cover).

There are several threads about a Windsor to Romeo swap (including mine). I am still in the process of installing the 2004 Romeo motor now (2000 Mustang GT Windsor). Motor in the car (fully dressed). Nothing hooked up as of yet. Hope to be driving in two weeks.

Parts to swap. Heads, intake, oil filter adapter, fuel injectors, COP’s, throttle body, oil pan oil pickup, dip stick tube(if you want the higher capacity oil pan), exhaust manifolds, wiring harness, heater return hard line.

I ran into interference problems with the oil sender and the block. Used a 90 degree elbow to re-locate the oil sender downward.

You will need to use the Romeo style serpentine belt routing with the extra idler pulley.

New parts, 6 bolt fly wheel, pilot bearing, serpentine belt (different length), gaskets. Depending upon the year the flywheel came from a new clutch may be needed (10.5” verses 11”), dip stick from a Romeo Mustang.

Good luck.

yea someone fed you the wrong cookies today, i did this very swap a month ago in my 2000 gt. you have to use the windsor timing cover with the windsor heads. its the bolt pattern on the heads that are different, not the block. oh and my car runs absolutly perfect on REGULAR fuel thank you very much. your only raising the cr to 10.0:1, premium only with FI cars or 11.0:1 or better, 12.5:1 or better your talking the goo stuff then.

Oh and rougestang; i would seriously consider not putting the after market cams in, for the simple fact that youll run into interfeirance issues (ptv). the only cam that would be safe, would be the xe268s. but $600+ for the cams wasnt worth 15-25hp that i was only goig to. the only thing you notice is a idle difference.
 
Thanks guys.... Yeah Josh it's me.Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. It's defiantly a romeo motor, 11 bolt valve covers and 6 bolt crank. If I can recall, only in 2000- thorugh mid 2001 did they make the 4.6 in the windsor plant. The 5.4's were still made there through. I will be getting most of the stuff that I need through my buddy's shop.... Should be an interesting swap. I have about a week to a week and a half window comming up to complete this job, before I have to go back to work. Luckily, since putting a motor in a few months ago is still fresh in my mind, I should be able to pull the motor out of my car in a day, and start the swap there after.

Good call on the cams, I was thinking about the 268's, but I was worried about the PTV as well. I'll probably hold off on them and just get my car back on the raod since it is my daily driver. Then save up to build my windsor motor.
 
1999 GT's had the Windsor motors too! I just went through the trouble of replacing a cylinder head because of too many plug blowouts.

And lose the underdrive pulleys, especially since they are BBK they are piggybacks. Since you are looking at Romeo motors, they wont fit anyways.

Good luck and if you need a hand in something I might be able to help out if I am out of work...
 
+1 on the cams. The non-pi blocks do not have flat topped pistons. Likely to have PTV contact if you switch cams.

Fast97gt, thanks for the feedback. I am still learning. As such, I do a lot of reading on the forums which can contain erroneous information. However, If I may ask for some clarification?

Is your tune stock or modified (tuner or otherwise)? If your tune is customized for your combination, it is possible that some timing has been taken out to prevent pinging/detonation?

I have read posts by other people that have done the PI heads on non-PI block reporting pinging under load. While the posters don’t always mention it, it is probably a good assumption they are using a stock tune.

The PI head on a non-PI block has the potential to make more power than a regular PI combination (from the improved breathing of the head plus the increase in CR). But to capitalize on the extra compression more timing is needed. More timing needs more octane. Since Mustangs do not have knock sensors, pinging/detonation is a very dangerous.

Regarding the TC issue, here are some interesting reads. The articles made my head swim trying to understand all of the information they contain.

Getting To The Bottom Of The Great Ford Cover-Up: Engine Builder

Ford Modular V-8 Engines Part 2 - Induction - Mustang & Fords Magazine

These guys encounter engine part combinations that are not the norm. I got the impression that as the differences in model year and crossing applications (truck/van/car), the possible problems with timing covers, timing gears, timing covers, and such increases.

Bottom line, I will defer to your recent direct experience. My direct experience is with the PI-Winsor to PI-Romeo. Obviously, I did not encounter some of the same issues as those doing the PI swap as well.

Good luck to all.
 
wmburns, no sir i do not have my car tuned, and no it doesnt nock or ping under a load or otherwise, if someone does have that issue then they have other issues. also im pretty sure they dont have knock sensors cause i dont remember unplugging one. however it be the case of others not replacing a worn out timing set like i did. also not a problem on the feed back, i am to still learning the does and donts of the 4.6 sagga.
 
wmburns- thanks for bringing up the timing issue.... I plan on getting a better tune when the build is done. Luckily for me, I know the guys at Tampa Bay Shelby, and they have always hooked me up with a good deal. I got my 4.10 gears at cost through those guys.... My buddy's shop is right next door, so I know that if there is anything that I don't have they can order it, and it is there in a couple of hours. Just to let you know off the top of my head:


After tearing the new motor down to the short block, i'm gonna use a head kit to re-install my PI heads on the TC short block. I need to use the timing cover from my old motor as well. I'll be replacing parts here and there if needed. I'm going to swap over pretty much all the acceseries from my Old motor (ie. oil tubing and filter location, cam sensors, knock sensors....)

My UD pulleys aren't the piggy back style, (my bad) and in any case, the 96-01 had the same system. The only difference is on some older motors the water pump pulley is almost concave in the front, where most others are just flat (you can check out BBK installation instructions as a reference). In any case, I have a 2000 4.6 long block(bad wrist pin) in my storage unit, the 99 engine in my car (bad rod) and the motor out of the TC (which i'm picking up today or tomorrow)...between the three motors, and new parts i'm pretty sure I have what I need to make it work! I'm not a genius when it comes to rebuilding, but I know enough to do it myself, and get around the obsticles that WILL pop up. If there is one thing for sure, no matter how big or small the job, chances are, there will always be an unexpected issue to waste time on.... I think I can speak for all of us when I say They suck!


P.S. The only thing I don't really want to buy new is a romeo 6 bolt flywheel for a manuel. If anybody in the tampa bay (speciafiaclly Pinellas/pasco county) area has one, shoot me an email at [email protected]
 
Windsor Motors have a 8 bolt crank, not a 6 bolt crank, and yes they should both be Windsor Motors, but the crown vic and other lincoln SOHC's didn't get PI heads until 2001...

Just keep looking unless you want to deal with swapping all of your timing stuff cover heads and valve covers).

Keep shopping around..

1999 ford mustang gt 4.6 motor


Thanks for correcting me, thats what I meant. Guess I should proof read my post while "multi tasking" at work. :D