Mustangs conflict with Mustangs

[jlisle01]

I wonder how many performance minded people wanted the looks of the Mustang and liked the price of the mustang but ended up going with a Goat or an older F-body because they just didn't like the idea of trying to squeeze some horsepower out of a puny 4.6 liter. I'm a Ford guy in general and a Mustang nut in particular but I've always been dismayed at Fords brilliant decision to go with a 4.6 for the Mustang. It was bad enough when I was 7/10ths of a liter down to F-body's. Now it's more than a liter. A lot more money from 5,000 Shelby buyers does not make up for a little more money from 100,000+ happy 5.4L GT buyers.

 

[jlisle01]

And I won't even mention an LS7.

 

[jlisle01]

?

 

[SVTdriver]

I wonder how many performance minded people wanted the looks of the Mustang and liked the price of the mustang but ended up going with a Goat or an older F-body because they just didn't like the idea of trying to squeeze some horsepower out of a puny 4.6 liter. I'm a Ford guy in general and a Mustang nut in particular but I've always been dismayed at Fords brilliant decision to go with a 4.6 for the Mustang. It was bad enough when I was 7/10ths of a liter down to F-body's. Now it's more than a liter. A lot more money from 5,000 Shelby buyers does not make up for a little more money from 100,000+ happy 5.4L GT buyers.

I tend to doubt many people chose the GTO or an older F-body simply on engine size (look at sales numbers on the GTO). The mustang has almost always had a smaller engine than the f-body. If this comes as news to mustang buyers. Then they haven't been paying attention for far too long. I have not met a person who liked everything about the car. But chose a different one. Based on engine size and easy of modifying for more power. Most people would rather have a car they liked than an engine they liked.

 

[FNG 2001]

Good thread question. I am definitely interested in a Mustang that fits somewhere between the GT and the GT500. The California Special looks like a body trim kit- not what I'm looking for. With the Camaro coming out in the near future with special editions following (i.e. Z28, SS) and Dodge's Challenger, I think we may see some cool special editions from Ford. A Mach 1, Bullet, or Boss with performance upgrades may be the perfect car for many of us.

 

[jlisle01]

I tend to doubt many people chose the GTO or an older F-body simply on engine size (look at sales numbers on the GTO). The mustang has almost always had a smaller engine than the f-body. If this comes as news to mustang buyers. Then they haven't been paying attention for far too long. I have not met a person who liked everything about the car. But chose a different one. Based on engine size and easy of modifying for more power. Most people would rather have a car they liked than an engine they liked.

Oh, I agree, but why does it have to be choise between the two? How about a car I like with a motor I like for a price I like? Heaven Forbid!

 

[SVTdriver]

Oh, I agree, but why does it have to be choise between the two? How about a car I like with a motor I like for a price I like? Heaven Forbid!

Because most peoples idea of a great car/engine/price combo or relatively far from reality. Most people like the dammer motor. Not many think it's that great for $13k. Many people like the GT500 motor. Few people want to pay even $42k for it.

 

[Rock36]

Because most peoples idea of a great car/engine/price combo or relatively far from reality. Most people like the dammer motor. Not many think it's that great for $13k. Many people like the GT500 motor. Few people want to pay even $42k for it.

I agree many people have unrealistic auto performance expectations, but I think the point is that to have the option of a 5.4L in a GT would be great. I think jlisle01 would accept the fact you had to pay more for a 5.4L option over a 4.6L in the GT. The GTO had a nice LS2 in it, and its 400hp offering didn't cost anywhere near $41K either.

Also I agree that badging shouldn't really mean all that much. A Mustang GT with a N/A 5.4L by any other name would smell just as sweet. Though the name BOSS or Mach 1 could command some extra money due to its exclusivity and name recognition. However, the days of picking from a large selection of engines in a single model type is long gone. So I guess it is all a moot point anyway.


I also think the original point of the thread expresses a valid concern. I would guess that a lighter N/A 5.4L mustang would be a really low 13 second or high 12 second car. From a marketing stand point that is really close to the GT500.

No where in a paid advertisement by Ford are they going to tell potential GT500 customers to swap the pulley, adjust the factory tune, or open the intake for extra performance. Even though that kind of thing happens all the time, I don't think a company like Ford will openly market a vehicle based on its aftermarket potential. That would be like openly admitting their product can't stand alone and needs the aftermarket support. Is this true? No...but the masses are fickle, including the masses that can afford over $40K for a car. So Ford has to market the GT500 as it is stock with the intent of it remaining stock. To further illustrate my point, Ford offers an array of performance packages for the GT (drag pack, handling pack, etc.) to cater to the likes of the aftermarket crowd, but you don't see that anywhere in their television or standard magazine ads (excluding the aftermarket specific magazines).

Thus marketing a low to mid $30K Mustang SE and a low to mid $40K GT500 may prove challenging if they have similar or very close STOCK performance numbers. Since Ford has to market both vehicles as they come STOCK.

I think what we may see is a special edition released after the run of the GT500 is over. That way they aren't directly competing with each other. Again the special edition mustang is still just rumor anyway.....

 

[05MGT]

I agree many people have unrealistic auto performance expectations, but I think the point is that to have the option of a 5.4L in a GT would be great. I think jlisle01 would accept the fact you had to pay more for a 5.4L option over a 4.6L in the GT. The GTO had a nice LS2 in it, and its 400hp offering didn't cost anywhere near $41K either.

Also I agree that badging shouldn't really mean all that much. A Mustang GT with a N/A 5.4L by any other name would smell just as sweet. Though the name BOSS or Mach 1 could command some extra money due to its exclusivity and name recognition. However, the days of picking from a large selection of engines in a single model type is long gone. So I guess it is all a moot point anyway.


I also think the original point of the thread expresses a valid concern. I would guess that a lighter N/A 5.4L mustang would be a really low 13 second or high 12 second car. From a marketing stand point that is really close to the GT500.

No where in a paid advertisement by Ford are they going to tell potential GT500 customers to swap the pulley, adjust the factory tune, or open the intake for extra performance. Even though that kind of thing happens all the time, I don't think a company like Ford will openly market a vehicle based on its aftermarket potential. That would be like openly admitting their product can't stand alone and needs the aftermarket support. Is this true? No...but the masses are fickle, including the masses that can afford over $40K for a car. So Ford has to market the GT500 as it is stock with the intent of it remaining stock. To further illustrate my point, Ford offers an array of performance packages for the GT (drag pack, handling pack, etc.) to cater to the likes of the aftermarket crowd, but you don't see that anywhere in their television or standard magazine ads (excluding the aftermarket specific magazines).

Thus marketing a low to mid $30K Mustang SE and a low to mid $40K GT500 may prove challenging if they have similar or very close STOCK performance numbers. Since Ford has to market both vehicles as they come STOCK.

I think what we may see is a special edition released after the run of the GT500 is over. That way they aren't directly competing with each other. Again the special edition mustang is still just rumor anyway.....

I'm glad to see at least someone focusing on my original thought.
You're probably right about a SE Mustang released after the GT500 run. The rumor mill already says the GT will get a performance increase in 2009-ish possibly pushing the car into the low 13's. I do like the other ideas stated here about a long engine list for the Mustang. It's a shame building a car doesnt work the way it used too; just a long list of options, check the ones you want, and have fun. Now there's all these restrictions like you cant get this with that color, or if you want just power windows, you have to pay $XXXX for Comfort Package 1A-4R blah blah that includes some dumb that you dont want....... Give me a 3300lb big block NATURALLY ASPIRATED Mustang!!!

 

[SVTdriver]

I agree many people have unrealistic auto performance expectations, but I think the point is that to have the option of a 5.4L in a GT would be great. I think jlisle01 would accept the fact you had to pay more for a 5.4L option over a 4.6L in the GT. The GTO had a nice LS2 in it, and its 400hp offering didn't cost anywhere near $41K either.

Also I agree that badging shouldn't really mean all that much. A Mustang GT with a N/A 5.4L by any other name would smell just as sweet. Though the name BOSS or Mach 1 could command some extra money due to its exclusivity and name recognition. However, the days of picking from a large selection of engines in a single model type is long gone. So I guess it is all a moot point anyway.


I also think the original point of the thread expresses a valid concern. I would guess that a lighter N/A 5.4L mustang would be a really low 13 second or high 12 second car. From a marketing stand point that is really close to the GT500.

No where in a paid advertisement by Ford are they going to tell potential GT500 customers to swap the pulley, adjust the factory tune, or open the intake for extra performance. Even though that kind of thing happens all the time, I don't think a company like Ford will openly market a vehicle based on its aftermarket potential. That would be like openly admitting their product can't stand alone and needs the aftermarket support. Is this true? No...but the masses are fickle, including the masses that can afford over $40K for a car. So Ford has to market the GT500 as it is stock with the intent of it remaining stock. To further illustrate my point, Ford offers an array of performance packages for the GT (drag pack, handling pack, etc.) to cater to the likes of the aftermarket crowd, but you don't see that anywhere in their television or standard magazine ads (excluding the aftermarket specific magazines).

Thus marketing a low to mid $30K Mustang SE and a low to mid $40K GT500 may prove challenging if they have similar or very close STOCK performance numbers. Since Ford has to market both vehicles as they come STOCK.

I think what we may see is a special edition released after the run of the GT500 is over. That way they aren't directly competing with each other. Again the special edition mustang is still just rumor anyway.....

My understanding is the mustang GT was very much marketed for it's after market appeal. This is why steeda had one long before it came out. And if you had the right credentials you could get in a meeting and take any measurements you wanted to. It was done with SEMA. And is why the 05 mustang had such a strong showing at that SEMA. Despite having been on sale for only a couple months.

 

[Rock36]

I'm not going to deny that. When I say openly advertise I mean on mainstream commercials and what not. Like the GT500 "Go" commercial with ol' Kelly. They make no mention of tuning, exhaust work, or pulleys.

This is my perception of the GT as it was marketed. It was marketed to the aftermarket too like you said, but that is a supplement to its mainstream marketing. All the advertising I saw (particularly on TV), the Bullitt comercials, the Bold Moves commercial, the commercial with all the wheel hop, never even indicated an aftermarket. Commercials like that appeal to the masses, and commericals like that are what attract the masses to buy. But I am not sure that most people can or are comfortable working on their cars even though something like a CAI takes 20min. Especially people paranoid about keeping their warranty. The aftermarket advertising is done within aftermarket circles. I don't work for Ford so I can't say for sure. I just don't see Kelly Clarkson telling us to swap the pulley for another 100hp.

I'd like to know what percentage of Mustang GTs that come off the lot eventually get modded in some way. That would be a good indicator of whether or not there would be an issue marketing a SE and GT500 at the same time.

 

[spidee]

I think what many of you fail to see is that the Shelby GT500 was developed to be a road racer. It wasn't built all around quarter miling it. If that was the case, they would've put some 4:10 gears in that diff.

As most of you know, Carroll Shelby's fame is from his past road racing accomplishments. The cars he help build with Ford in the past were balanced N/A road racer examples. Unfortunately SVT failed to come thru with their new version. They stuffed a heavy supercharger in front and ruined the almost close 50:50 weight distribution. Therefore, if you plan to road race, in my opinion, the GT500 is not the best car for the job. If you plan to quarter mile it, with a few mods and it's a 10 second car.

So as much as you guys complain about its performance numbers, you should keep in mind Ford's attempt was to make the car handle, not go fast in a straight line.

 

[Rock36]

To avoid beating a dead horse too much, I will just say that I never said it was impossible to market a GT500 and a special edition at the same time.

I just claimed that Ford would need to take it into consideration if they produced a special edition Mustang that was $10,000 less than a Shelby and posted similar 0-60times, 1/4mile times (assuming it is within three to four tenths of a second), road holding figures, etc. I reference 1/4mile times not to point out it is a drag car, but because 1/4 times are a standard performance figure for almost all cars.

Is this something to consider from a marketing standpoint? Yes
Does it mean they are unable to successfully market both simultaneously? No