Need a bit of help....

YouTube - 12.16 @ 112 N/A 2v. Stock motor, stock heads

There are MANY s197s running deep 12s as well

GOAT?

do you mean that v8 powered Grand Am?

KBExperience said:

GOAT?

do you mean that v8 powered Grand Am?

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a "Goat" is a GTO.

Winters98GT said:

a "Goat" is a GTO.

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i know.. i was trying to imply that a GTO is just a v8 powered grand am

KBExperience said:

i know.. i was trying to imply that a GTO is just a v8 powered grand am

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Winters98GT said:

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KBExperience said:

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KBExperience said:

i know.. i was trying to imply that a GTO is just a v8 powered grand am

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Definitely unimpressive cars.

I got walked by one pretty hard at HRP on the 18th I will admit that they can be made to sound AMAZING with a cam and the one I ran happened to kick out a low 12 Nothing worse than being able to read the other cars time when racing

Well, you'd have to be a nut hugging Ford fan to argue that the 4.6 or even 5.0 Cammer is as strong an engine design as the LS series GM engines.

But you could argue that the car the engine is placed in has something to do with things. I always liked the f-bodies, but bought a Mustang because they were smaller and lighter. I don't need as much power in a lighter package. And I'm not hung up on who's faster.

I guarantee you that I can mod a 5 liter cammer to beat any stock LS engine, but at the end of the day I'd rather have a stock C6 than a modded to piss Mustang unless the drag strip was my only intention. And if the drag strip was my only intention, I'd rather have a modded to piss C6 or f-body than a Mustang. Hell, if the road course was my only motivation, I'd rather have a Corvette or f-body. But I drive my car in the real world. And I have a 2+2 that weighs ~3200 lbs. and has a RWD V8. Why get picky over who makes it or who makes a more powerful car? I don't have a bottomles wallet or I'd buy a V8 Ferrari and have an f-body installed in my bathroom as a urinal just to piss off people I've never met.

If the size of my dick was directly related to the size of the engine in my car, I'd choose a Chevy LS-powered car. But it's not.

Honestly, there is nothing not to like about the LS engines. Why pretend they aren't phenonmenal and a reflection of the engineering prowess at GM?

Cam in block is a superior design from a packaging and weight standpoint. Overhead cam designs get more power out of a given displacement, but in America displacement is not an issue. The big drawback of a cam in block design is high rpm operation, and GM seems to have solved it with sodium filled valves and other exotic technology not seen outside of Italian exotics. Overhead cam designs suffer from a top-heavy weight distribution and a very wide and heavy engine for a given displacement. But it handles high rpm operation very easily. And a high rpm V8 is the ****.

Since GM and Ford both have high rpm V8's using different technologies, why argue about how they did it? GM has a winning formula in the LS engines. Ford is playing catch-up with overhead cams, but it isn't like their cars suck. They are lighter, sell better, and the Mustang is responsible for the very existence of the Camaro since day one. What's there to argue about? Unless you like losing, because the LS engines trump the Ford OHC designs in displacement and therefore in pretty much every other category one cares to mention. I like the Ford engines, but that doesn't mean I don't like the GM LS engines. I wonder what Ford would be putting out today if they kept pushing the big bore short stroke cam in block V8 they had in the old 302.

If it comes down to it, remember that Henry Ford started his company by winning a race, while the Chevrolet brothers started a company building race cars, got bought out, and quit to go back to building and racing cars. Neither company has anything to apologize for when it comes to racing.

d98gt said:

I got walked by one pretty hard at HRP on the 18th I will admit that they can be made to sound AMAZING with a cam and the one I ran happened to kick out a low 12 Nothing worse than being able to read the other cars time when racing

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well, it's going to happen again in the spring.

Nightfire said:

Im having a "discussion" with a GM nut-hugging moron about the new 5.0.

He's saying that he's unimpressed with the 2011 GT and says that it is "still ****". He goes on to say that all Mustangs in general are a joke and get minimal gains from bolt-ons (even cams are a waste), etc.

So......Im looking for any information on bolt-on N/A GT's running 12's and better. Links, videos, anything would be greatly appreciated. I know that there are quite a few out there.





.......oh did I mention he drives a GOAT

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Your efforts are futile, there is no arguing with a GM nut-hugger. The LS motor was touched by the hand of God and nothing is better, not even a lifetime supply of beer and clean hookers.


On a serious note, he is half correct. Mustang's (speaking in 4.6 terms) don't respond to bolt ons the way that they should. The 4.6 is an un-impressive motor in 2v form. 3v's are what the 2v should have been, and 4v is where it's at in the modular game.

It IS a joke to pay $550 for two cams, plus $200 for springs, plus install and get MAYBE 30-40rwhp on a fully bolt on, longtube, cammed car. That is pathetic. And cams for a 4v? lol... try $1,200 JUST for the cams, add in double the amount of springs for a 2v, then installation for around or slightly more power...

Hell, a lot of us in this forum have full bolt on, geared cars and CAN'T make it out of the 13's. While there are guys who are rolling to the strip in bone stock 7 year old Camaros and T/As that are knocking down 12.90's all day long.

Yes, the Chevy has a better engine and transmission setup, and that is their advantage. Yes, they can knock down upwards of 30mpg on a cammed bolt on car (my buddy is putting down 422rwhp, gets 28mpg through a stalled auto in his '98 Z/28).

Ford is really trying hard to step up now with the 5.0 DOHC as a standard engine in the GT. Hopefully this engine isn't tapped out from the factory, as our 2v's were pretty much until you tore them down and actually built them correctly. Time will tell on that, but until then, a GM guy has nothing to lose by stating the facts.

If you want to piss him off in return, ask him what nutsack at GM thought it would be a good idea to put a 10-bolt rear behind the F-body cars, as well as why they got the 4L60 instead of 4L80 as the standard auto trans. That will give him something to think about.

And the GTO's are no joke. Yeah, they are heavy, but has anyone looked at what a GT-500 weighs lately? Not to mention the LS2 responds even better than the LS1 to bolt on mods, cam, and headwork. I have a buddy with an '05 GTO, auto, cam only car with a small shot of juice and it is STUPID fast. I have another buddy who has a STOCK BOTTOM END '04 (LS1 car) GTO putting out 660rwhp with the help of a Procharger.


Now, with all of that out of the way... I made a bet that I could beat my buddy with the Z/28 (ported factory heads, cam, bolt on, tuned, geared, stalled... yadda yadda) off the line and to the end of 2nd gear for me. I did, twice...