Need help, brake & wheel upgrade

[Spyder SC]

I am looking for companies that offer brake upgrade for 74 Mustang II front and 8” rear axle.

I have a car that is based on the 74 Mustang II. It currently has 14 x 7 inch wheels with 0 offset. I want to put disc brakes on the rear and increase the size of the front.

Question – does anyone have experience doing this? Who’s did you use? Did the wheel mounting surface move out any? Any other problems like master cylinder sizing, etc?

Also, I want to change to 5 lug so I can put on 16 or 17 inch x 7 or 8 wheels (so I don’t have any problems with the existing suspension/body.)

Question – Does anyone know where I can get 5 lug axles for this rear end or what donar vehicle will fit like bronco II or ranger for example?

Question – Does anyone have experience upgrading a 2 spyder posi unit to 4 spyders?

Question – Does anyone know a wheel manufacturer that offers a wheel that will fit with 0 offset? One of the brake manufacturers indicate that 75/80 Granada/Monarch wheels will bolt up to the 5 lug 4.5 pattern.

Doug

 

[Wart]

I don't suppose you ever heard of the Hot Rod Aftermarket.

Is this a true Mustang II rear axle? Ditch it for many reasons.

Remember, parts sellers will sell you what they have and make it sound perfect even if it isn't, if it's not the best choice, or even what you need because it's what they have to sell you.


Also be wary of those who are bolt on boys, the flat rate modifiers, hammer and chisle hacks, as they seem to push the easiest way out even if it's not the best way, or even an acceptable way, because, really, it's all they know.

 

[Wart]

Question – Does anyone know a wheel manufacturer that offers a wheel that will fit with 0 offset? One of the brake manufacturers indicate that 75/80 Granada/Monarch wheels will bolt up to the 5 lug 4.5 pattern.

Doug

Numerous manufacturers and I venture hundreds of rims.

Do yourself a favor, make a list of rims that bolt up fit and function, then choose your style from that list.

I've found that these days people make a list of the style first then go looking for a rim that fits, and when they can't find a rim that fits from that list they get the rim in the style they have made their heart set on and voodoo the rim to the car. This is far from a solid engineering approach.

 

[Spyder SC]

Is this a true Mustang II rear axle? Ditch it for many reasons.

Yes it is a true II rear axle. I removed it and the front suspension from the Ghia myself. It was a 3:55. I have since put in a 3:00 posi with 2 spyders. During this rebuild, I will be using the Posi with the 3:55 because the trans will be changed to an AOD.

Why do you suggest I ditch the II axle?

Doug

 

[dmoody]

Welcome Doug to the Mustang II world,

I have a car that is based on the 74 Mustang II. It currently has 14 x 7 inch wheels with 0 offset. I want to put disc brakes on the rear and increase the size of the front.

I don't know what your budget is but Wilwood makes a 5-lug kit for both the front and rear. However getting your emergency brake cable to work requires some ingenuity since Wilwood doesn't address that issue. Also the Wilwood kit on the front requires 15" rims. There are other cheaper ways of adapting the front to bigger discs. There are also a handful of people who have adapted various parts from different cars to get disc brakes on the rear.

Question – does anyone have experience doing this? Who’s did you use? Did the wheel mounting surface move out any? Any other problems like master cylinder sizing, etc?

I personally used the Wilwood kit for the front. There are a lot of good engineering advantages to be found in the Wilwood kit. For example since the hub is separated from the rotor this isolates the bearings from heat. Also the hub is drilled to accept any 5-lug rim, not just Ford. I did not notice that the wheel mounting surface moved out any with the Wilwood kit. For the rears, I used Granada five lug axles from a junk car. Then I used 86 Ranger rear drums... the cost was very low and besides 99% of people don't need disc brakes on the rear. Auto manufacturers only switched over because of cost and simplicity.

Also, I want to change to 5 lug so I can put on 16 or 17 inch x 7 or 8 wheels (so I don’t have any problems with the existing suspension/body.)

You'll just have to try different rims and measure how much clearance you have. If rotating the tires is not an issue, you can fit wide rims in the rear much easier than you can in the front.

Question – Does anyone know a wheel manufacturer that offers a wheel that will fit with 0 offset? One of the brake manufacturers indicate that 75/80 Granada/Monarch wheels will bolt up to the 5 lug 4.5 pattern.

Huh? Look for rims that fit vintage or classic cars for 0 offset.

david

 

[Wart]

Is this a true Mustang II rear axle? Ditch it for many reasons.

Yes it is a true II rear axle. I removed it and the front suspension from the Ghia myself.

You realize that's going to put you on alot of peoples shyt list.?

Why do you suggest I ditch the II axle?

Doug

Numerous reasons.

Two of the bennifits I found in ditching the axle housing are 1) I quit breaking springs, and 2) parts choice and availability increased substantially.

 

[Wart]

... For the rears, I used Granada five lug axles from a junk car. Then I used 86 Ranger rear drums... the cost was very low and besides 99% of people don't need disc brakes on the rear. ...

I never looked into the granada axle/ ranger drum thing mainly because I believe the axles longer than II axles, but mostly because the drums would be the same size as the II drums in order to use the same backing plate. Drum size is an asthetic thing mostly, The brakes looked dinkey in a 13 inch rim let alone a larger rim.

If using a different backing plate the retention bolt holes would have to be wallered out as the II axle flanges are unique. This would be a safety issue.

Yeah, next time I have a II axle apart I'll measure the axles and compare them to the Granada units.

Slightly longer axles possably butting against the spyder pin, and Ranger drums with a II brake plate aren't safety isssues so I don't see much objectionable to the setup.


Only real reason to have disk brake rears are 1) Trailer towing, 2) Road Racing, or 3) OOoooo factor.

 

[Spyder SC]

DMoody - thank you for the welcome.
Budget is always a concern. The scope of this project includes new (different engine/trans from a Thunderbird Supercoupe (Supercharged 3.8 ltr, with matching AOD), Brake, wheel & tire upgrade, body work and new paint,, etc. , but, I fully expect to drop between $800 - $1000 for the brakes.

I (club) road race the car and the existing mustang system isn't too happy after a few laps. And yes, I'll admit the Wow factor of rear discs is on the list.

I'll check out wilwood.

Granada rear axles .... Cool!

Not having too much luck finding a wheel to fit the Granada application. All seem to have a vintage look. Not that that is a bad thing, I'm just looking for a different look.

Wart - I hope the statue of limitations will keep me safe. I built this car in 1987.

Mu chassis uses coil over shocks on all four corners with Himes joints and Poly bushings. The rear axle is located with four bar/poly bushings so everything is stable and unbreakable.

I might add at this point that the car was powered with a 351W (low 14s @ 96 mph) with out breathing too hard. So, I am very comfortable with the rear axle.

Doug

 

[Power Surge]

Doug, they are getting hard to find as of late, but if you can find one, the rear from a Lincoln Versaille (late 70s) is a 9" with discs. It bolts in a II with minor modifications, but since you are coil over, then you can do your own mounting.

Another option is the late model Explorer( 99-02ish) has an 8.8 rear with discs that supposedly has a good width for the II, so it should match up closely to your setup.

As for brakes, if you road race, you need good stuff. The Wilwood kit is really meant for drag racing, I don't know if I'd road race with it. At the least, get the "heavy duty" version which is a few bucks more.

Heidts sells a decent budget setup, that might work good for you. It's the Granada rotors, with Wilwood 4 piston calipers. It's only about $400. That should give you a beefy 11" rotor with the clamping force of the Wilwood piston.

Hope this helps.

 

[Spyder SC]

Sal,

Good input, I think if I am going to change out axles, I'll go the the Explorer. I need to compare the axle width. Could prove to be cost effective.

I spoke with Heidt and the "budget kit" uses the exact oem components, ie. Granada rotors and GM calipers on the front (and GM calipers on the rear) as the other . The major difference I'm finding in the manufacturers is the completeness of the kits.

Tks....

Doug

 

[Power Surge]

Sal,

Good input, I think if I am going to change out axles, I'll go the the Explorer. I need to compare the axle width. Could prove to be cost effective.

I spoke with Heidt and the "budget kit" uses the exact oem components, ie. Granada rotors and GM calipers on the front (and GM calipers on the rear) as the other . The major difference I'm finding in the manufacturers is the completeness of the kits.

Tks....

Doug

The GM caliper kit is the super low budget kit. They also sell the Granada rotor kit with Wilwood calipers. I have that kit on the Thundersnake.

 

[dmoody]

The Wilwood kit is really meant for drag racing, I don't know if I'd road race with it. At the least, get the "heavy duty" version which is a few bucks more.

That is wrong - Wilwood makes multiple kits. The one I installed and the one I recommend has vented rotors with six piston calipers. The kit Sal is talking about is just a solid disc (2-piston calipers?) and yes I wouldn't use it except on the drag strip.

david

 

[Wart]

Mu chassis uses coil over shocks on all four corners with Himes joints and Poly bushings. The rear axle is located with four bar/poly bushings so everything is stable and unbreakable.

We would know this from the information you provided.

Which chassis is this?

 

[Mustangj]

Hey! welcome! Check out these dudes (Baer) They have a multitude of 5 bolt brake kits of kits and brake upgrades for the 4 on 41/4 bolt pattern too. I have sold their products before and they welcome kustom order stuff. No one mentioned it, but having your rear axle shafts re-drilled to 5 on 4 1/2" or 5 on 4 3/4" is quit common and inexpensive. I have priced it out at $35 an axle shaft at a local automotive machine shop. The 8" should be fine behind an Automatic trans. Most 8" ford failures I have heard about involve standard transmission cars with high HP. I have aproximately 275HP plus a 100 hp shot of nitrous and my rear axle has caused me no problems........yet

Their web site blows, you may have to call them or visit a speed shop that carries their product. (Their catalog rocks).

http://baer.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe/00777.5.3554528946800024457

 

[Mustangj]

Post a picture of that thing. Do not worry we go off topic all the time. I am generally the cause :OT:

 

[Spyder SC]

Mustang J - Hadn't thought about Baer. Will check them out today.

All - Didn't want to muddy up the waters with non mustang detail but, here is a little more detail about the car.

Replica of 1958 Ferrari Spyder California, built by me in 1987. The last of 11 "unassembled cars" produced by Modena Design and Development. Chassis #18. There were a total of approximately 54 sold before the company was sold. Total production from all owners was something on the order of 62. Yes, this is the Ferris Beuller car.

Frame - custom nasca style, designed by a nasca chassis maker (don't remember who). Chassis main rails are 3 x 4 box tubing, .120 wall with a 1" square tubing backbone that runs from just forward of the rear axle to beyond the radiator. From the rear of the back bone to the the rear bumper is 1" square tubing upper and lower frame.

Mustang II front control arms and steering rack. Carrera coil over shocks with Heims (sp) joints and Energy suspension poly bushings in the control arms.

Rear suspension is 4 bar (with poly hour glass shaped bushings) and a panhard rod, Carrera coil overs (same as front).

Power (up until this summer) was 1974 351 W. .030 over, Edlebrock performer cam and intake manifold. 1984 Bronco electronic distributer, Holly throttle body EFI (commander 950) Sanderson block hugger headers, High flow cats, Dynomax mufflers.


I'll attempt to attach a photo.

Doug

 

[jeffnoel]

Suweeeet car

 

[Wart]

Mustang J - Hadn't thought about Baer. Will check them out today.

All - Didn't want to muddy up the waters with non mustang detail but, here is a little more detail about the car.

Replica of 1958 Ferrari Spyder California ....

I don't know about the others but I'll forgive your killing a II to make this car.

I thought you were going to say something like a Classic Mustang, or a Camero or Streetrod ... killing a II for one of those is BullShyt.

 

[Mustangj]

Way Kool!

Never put it on jack stands and place it in reverse to roll back the odometer

I have never seen a gold Ferrari looks kller!

I have more respect for Wart now, guy is such a Mustang enthusiast he can't even spell Camaro

 

[Spyder SC]

Mustang J - Unfortunately ... it is on Jack stands at the moment and expect to be for approximatly one year. As mentioned, on the front end of a year long restoration/upgrade. Sadly, The 351 is gone .... BUT .... I have a Thunderbird Supercoupe engine/trans that will take its place The 351 will have a new life in a FFR Cobra by the way.

Wart - I do have another Itsy bitsy confession, the paint is 1987 Corvette Silver Beige. That photo was taken in the early, early (read that as O dark thirty) morning sun. And, the steering column is Pontiac GTO (1967). Everything else is aftermarket of Ford. I swear it, honest.

Tried to get to Baer yesterday but just ran out of time. Will renew the hunt on Monday.

Thanks all for the input, understanding (about scavenging from the II. I was a dead car by the way, a youth had blown the engine and it was resting in a poor, poor heap just waiting for the wrecker to take it too the scrap yard)


Doug