need help with destroyed roller cam

Markus · Nov 13, 2011

Hello guys,

today i pulled my dizzy and found a slightly worn distributor gear.
Ok, not the problem. New gear on and go.
BUT... i looked down to my 20.000 miles old custom cam and found a
total worn out cam gear
I never seen this before on all my mustangs.
The specs of the dizzy are all in the tolerance.
What can destroy a cam like this
Here are some high res photos. I hope you have an idea

dizzy gear

dizzy gear 2.

dizzy gear 3.

cam gear

cam gear 2.

What the hell

thanks

Markus

Markus · Nov 13, 2011

addendum:

checked the cam shaft end play >
distributor turns with oil pump free, no bind >

Could it be a hardness problem of the cam grind
because the dizzy gear is not so bad

thanks

wizwrath · Nov 14, 2011

thats a weird one, if something was up in there, the dist. gear is the one that usually goes first, but it does sound like the cam gear itself (iam assuming the dist. gear is for a 5.0 cam, right?) Also check to make sure that when you bolt down the dist. make sure its not binding up the cam/oil pump shaft assembly etc. Also, I would be concerned abuot where all that metal shavings went too...we usually pull the motor, split the case and check the bearings, etc.

NIKwoaC · Nov 14, 2011

Who did you buy the cam from? That would be the first place I'd go for answers.

tmoss · Nov 14, 2011

I'd suspect hardness/heat treat of the cam

Markus · Nov 14, 2011

tmoss said:
I'd suspect hardness/heat treat of the cam

exactly what i think too.

The dizzy is a stock 5.0 with a oem steel gear for hydraulic roller cams. When i bold down the distributor with out cam it turns free, there is no bind.
I don´t know exactly but i think it is a comp cam xfi core. FTI built it for me.
I send an email to fti too.
Next weekend i will remove the oil pan and the oil pump and a few bearings to see where all the shavings are
There is a light debris on the cam lobes and the roller lifter. This look like a thin film metal.

lifter

and on one cam lobe there is a pit..

cam

Markus

90lxcoupe · Nov 14, 2011

I also had this problem. You have the wrong distributor gear for your camshaft.

The OEM ford cam is a billet core, the cam you have is not a billet core, so the gear on your distributor is not designed to work with that cam core and that is why its eating it up.

When i had my motor apart for the cam swap i found no shavings anywhere, i think that your motor will be fine. Easiest, and best bet is to cut the filter apart and see whats in there.

Just looked at the pic of the cam, i think that knick in it had zero to do with the dist gear and more to do with the surface finish on the cam. I have heard comps finishes arent up to par and the lifter can actually jump off of the lobe at higher RPMS. Give Bullet a call for your next grind and go with the billet core

tmoss · Nov 14, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
I also had this problem. You have the wrong distributor gear for your camshaft.

The OEM ford cam is a billet core, the cam you have is not a billet core, so the gear on your distributor is not designed to work with that cam core and that is why its eating it up.

When i had my motor apart for the cam swap i found no shavings anywhere, i think that your motor will be fine. Easiest, and best bet is to cut the filter apart and see whats in there.

my mustang had a SADI core in it. Ford used both.

Markus · Nov 14, 2011

Comp cam suggested a oem steel gear for this grind.
I changed over the time (20.000 miles) 5 times the oil filter and oil so i don´t think i find something

Markus

NIKwoaC · Nov 14, 2011

There is so much confusing info around the internet regarding SADI vs billet and what kind of distributor gear you need to run. I was pretty seriously concerned about this when I was building my engine, but Mike at TEA told me to just leave the stock distributor gear on the car, run a SADI cam and forget about it. Haven't had any problems yet *knocks on wood*. Besides, if SADI required anything different than the stock distributor gear, I think they would state that in the documentation that comes with the cam.

My (SADI) Comp cam looked nothing like that, I would be questioning the quality of the iron that went into that cam. How long ago was this cam made?

90lxcoupe said:
I have heard comps finishes arent up to par and the lifter can actually jump off of the lobe at higher RPMS.

I've never heard that first part before, and I think the second part would be more due to insufficient valvetrain. You're basically talking about valve float there.

90lxcoupe · Nov 15, 2011

NikwoaC said:
I was pretty seriously concerned about this when I was building my engine, but Mike at TEA told me to just leave the stock distributor gear on the car, run a SADI cam and forget about it. Haven't had any problems yet *knocks on wood*. Besides, if SADI required anything different than the stock distributor gear, I think they would state that in the documentation that comes with the cam.

Well, we have this guys cam that looked like that, and my cam did the same thing. I'd be checking that out this off season if i were you, no matter what anyone told you.

NikwoaC said:
I've never heard that first part before, and I think the second part would be more due to insufficient valvetrain. You're basically talking about valve float there.

Im just quoting what i was told when i bought my cam, and thats the reason why a bullet ground cam is in my car.

90lxcoupe · Nov 15, 2011

Markus said:
Comp cam suggested a oem steel gear for this grind.
I changed over the time (20.000 miles) 5 times the oil filter and oil so i don´t think i find something

Markus

If the filter is clean, i wouldnt worry about it. 5 times in 20k miles isnt alot, thats 4k mile intervals, if there is something in the motor, it will be in the filter.

Markus · Nov 15, 2011

Hello guys,

thank you so far.

The statement from comp cam:
- my Oil (mobil1 15w50) is good but a litte zddp
- the oem steel gear is ok
- the pit in the lobe is possibly from the gear shavings or the oil
- the distroyed cam gear come from the high volume oil pump (main reason)
- no drilled hole in the lifter galley plug

Markus · Nov 15, 2011

NikwoaC said:
How long ago was this cam made?

the cam is from early 2006

Markus

NIKwoaC · Nov 15, 2011

Markus said:
Hello guys,

thank you so far.

The statement from comp cam:
- my Oil (mobil1 15w50) is good but a litte zddp
- the oem steel gear is ok
- the pit in the lobe is possibly from the gear shavings or the oil
- the distroyed cam gear come from the high volume oil pump (main reason)
- no drilled hole in the lifter galley plug

Those are the two things that jump out at me. That is really "heavy" oil, a typical small block Ford with reasonable bearing clearances and operating conditions is only going to want 5W30, 10W30, or maaaaybe 10W40. Are you running that because you need it for oil pressure? Have you tried a "lighter" oil?

Second, the HV oil pump is definitely going to be putting more stress on the gears. Again, ask yourself if a HV pump is necessary for your application. A lot of cars do just fine with a standard pump, even some pretty serious builds do just fine with a standard pump.

NIKwoaC · Nov 15, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
Well, we have this guys cam that looked like that, and my cam did the same thing. I'd be checking that out this off season if i were you, no matter what anyone told you.

I'll definitely take a look at it this winter, I'm going to pull apart some of the engine and see how the new parts are doing, anyway. Out of curiosity, what kind of oil pump and oil do you run?

90lxcoupe said:
Im just quoting what i was told when i bought my cam, and thats the reason why a bullet ground cam is in my car.

I mean this with absolutely no disrespect toward your cam guy, because I know that he knows what the hell he's talking about, but something I've found is that there is a little bit of **** kicking that goes on in the custom cam industry. Some of it may be true, some of it might not be, all I know is that I've talked to some people who know quite a bit about this sort of thing and have been using Comp without any issues for a long time. I dunno, I'm not going to lose any sleep over running a Comp cam, but I am going to be on the look out for the problems that you guys have experienced.

Markus · Nov 15, 2011

NikwoaC said:
Those are the two things that jump out at me. That is really "heavy" oil, a typical small block Ford with reasonable bearing clearances and operating conditions is only going to want 5W30, 10W30, or maaaaybe 10W40. Are you running that because you need it for oil pressure? Have you tried a "lighter" oil?

Second, the HV oil pump is definitely going to be putting more stress on the gears. Again, ask yourself if a HV pump is necessary for your application. A lot of cars do just fine with a standard pump, even some pretty serious builds do just fine with a standard pump.

I don´t need such heavy oil and my oil pressure is more than enough but i drive this car only in warm weather and from time to time in autobahn speed.
So the heavy oil gives me a better "feeling".
Also i don´t "need" a high volume pump. But in all my 5.0 stangs in the past i run this oil and this oil pumps. No issue for 100 thousands miles. (but stock cam !!!)
But ok, if comp cam say it is so, it is so

Markus

90lxcoupe · Nov 15, 2011

I am also running a high volume pump, and usually use 10w30 oil, what lifter galley plug needs to be drilled? Looks like i may be pulling my new cam out for inspection this winter too.

NIKwoaC · Nov 15, 2011

Markus said:
I don´t need such heavy oil and my oil pressure is more than enough but i drive this car only in warm weather and from time to time in autobahn speed.
So the heavy oil gives me a better "feeling".
Also i don´t "need" a high volume pump. But in all my 5.0 stangs in the past i run this oil and this oil pumps. No issue for 100 thousands miles. (but stock cam !!!)
But ok, if comp cam say it is so, it is so

Markus

Yea, the heavy weight oil may be doing you more harm than good. Generally speaking, the lightest weight oil that still maintains the oil pressure you need is the best for your engine. It's a "more is not necessarily better" type of thing.

Markus · Nov 15, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
I am also running a high volume pump, and usually use 10w30 oil, what lifter galley plug needs to be drilled? Looks like i may be pulling my new cam out for inspection this winter too.

...this one, direct behind the dizzy shaft

need help with destroyed roller cam

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