Need Help

92fiveohT5 · Nov 12, 2014

I had an 86 mustang that I converted from 3.8 and C4 to 5.0 non-H.O. and T5 and the car was totalled in an accident. I bought a 92 5.0 and transferred everything from the 86 into it. Before putting the engine and transmission in, I rebuilt the T5 and swapped the cam with an E303. I obviously changed the firing order to the 351 firing order and also swapped the ecu with my summit racing ecu. The 86 ran fine with the summit racing ecu, but now the 92 will not run right. I tried everything I could think of and it still runs like crap and pops out of the intake like the timing is off. The idle goes up and down from 1000 to 3500 rpm. When the idle is 1000 rpm, my vacuum is at between 5 and 8 inches of vacuum and the air/fuel ratio is at about 19.8. I have the tps adjusted to .80 volts at closed. Any help with this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

jka · Nov 12, 2014

Check your grounds also check for vacuum leaks..also have you checked the codes?

mikestang63 · Nov 12, 2014

lost you.. You are running a carb setup with an EFi EEC? Also, what distibutor are you running- carb or efi?

92fiveohT5 · Nov 12, 2014

jka said:
Check your grounds also check for vacuum leaks..also have you checked the codes?

I have replaced all of the vacuum lines prior to installing the engine and transmission. I also checked all of the grounds and even added some. As for the codes, the engine has not been running long enough, and I haven't even driven it yet to complete a drive cycle to throw any codes. I have even tried to reposition the distributor advanced and retarded by one tooth with no luck. Also, I forgot to mention that I also installed a new 70mm throttle body and EGR spacer. The only thing I have not tried already is putting the 92 ecu back in the car.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 12, 2014

mikestang63 said:
lost you.. You are running a carb setup with an EFi EEC? Also, what distibutor are you running- carb or efi?

Everything has always been EFI. The engine came out of a 90 Grand Marquis.

jka · Nov 12, 2014

How old is your distributor?..you may have a bad pickup..i had the same problem before.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

jka said:
How old is your distributor?..you may have a bad pickup..i had the same problem before.

It is probably the original distributor, I bought the engine in 2008 when I converted the 86, but it ran fine until the accident in may this year. The only stuff I changed on the distributor, after I bought the engine was the cap and rotor. This is the first time since, that I had it running after putting it in the 92.

jka · Nov 13, 2014

It could be your problem..i have had this problem the stock distributor and with auto zone distributors.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

jka said:
It could be your problem..i have had this problem the stock distributor and with auto zone distributors.

I try not to buy parts at Autozone if at all possible, crappy parts. lol I am going to make a home made smoke machine tomorrow and check again for any intake or vacuum leaks. I will also try putting the 92 stock ecu back in the car and see if maybe it is part of the problem. I don't know if the accident might have damaged the ecu I have installed right now, I hit the guy at about 45 mph when he turned in front of me at the last minute, all of the damage was on the passenger side.

jka · Nov 13, 2014

I really don't like autozone but with a lifetime warranty on the distributors you can't beat it. Everytime my distributor craps out i just return it for another one.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

jka said:
I really don't like autozone but with a lifetime warranty on the distributors you can't beat it. Everytime my distributor craps out i just return it for another one.

I get your point there, I have a few sensors from there and a smog pump.

jrichker · Nov 13, 2014

Dump the codes anyway. If there is a problem inside the computer or it can't properly read a sensor, it will set a code.

Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.

Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

jrichker said:
Dump the codes anyway. If there is a problem inside the computer or it can't properly read a sensor, it will set a code.

Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.

Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.

Thanks, I have a scan tool, I will just connect that to the DLC/VIPSelf-Test connector. Doubt there would be any codes, but could not hurt to check. I just hope the ecu is fine, $400 down the drain if it's damaged.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

Update: I ran the codes and only pulled 2; DTC: 81- Air diverter solenoid fault, intake air control circuit fault/air injection diverter, DTC: 11- System pass.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

Update: I checked the terminals on the air diverter solenoid and it registered 0 ohms, I checked another solenoid I had sitting on my shelf and it registered 71 ohms. Visual inspection revealed the solenoid housing is cracked and exposing the coils inside. I replaced it and I ran the KOEO test again and now have KOEO DTC: 11 and CM DTC: 11. I do not think that this problem could have caused the issue I am having though. If anybody can think of anything else, please let me know, thank you.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

I have read different content on the internet regarding distributor rotor position for No. 1 TDC and there are 2 different settings. I have tried both of them and had no luck. I have taken pictures of both of them, the first is the position that I think is correct. The black sharpie mark is where the No. 1 terminal on the cap is. Can someone confirm the correct position? Thank you.

Mustang5L5 · Nov 13, 2014

92fiveohT5 said:
Update: I checked the terminals on the air diverter solenoid and it registered 0 ohms, I checked another solenoid I had sitting on my shelf and it registered 71 ohms. Visual inspection revealed the solenoid housing is cracked and exposing the coils inside. I replaced it and I ran the KOEO test again and now have KOEO DTC: 11 and CM DTC: 11. I do not think that this problem could have caused the issue I am having though. If anybody can think of anything else, please let me know, thank you.

What about Engine running codes?

I see you got KOEO and CM, but don't see if you got an 11 for KOER or performed a cylinder balance test.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 13, 2014

Mustang5L5 said:
What about Engine running codes?

I see you got KOEO and CM, but don't see if you got an 11 for KOER or performed a cylinder balance test.

I didn't do the KOER or do a cylinder balance test because I cannot get the engine to run good enough to perform them. I want to get the idle steady before I do so, but the idle keeps jumping up and down continuously from 1000 to 3500 and back down to 1000 rpm and repeats the process over and over. Vacuum at 1000 rpm bounces between 5 and 8 inches of vacuum. Air/fuel is reading from 19.8 to 20.

jrichker · Nov 14, 2014

You have a vacuum leak somewhere.

Finding vacuum leaks

Revised 04-Aug-2011 to add pintle cap, PCV grommet & power brake check valve grommet to checklist.

There is no easy way to find vacuum leaks. It is a time consuming job that requires close inspection of each and every hose and connection.

Small vacuum leaks may not show much change using a vacuum gauge. The range of "good readings" varies so much from engine to engine that it may be difficult to detect small leaks. The engine in my first Mustang pulled about 16.5" of vacuum at 650-725 RPM, which I consider rather low. It was a mass market remanufactured rebuild, so no telling what kind of camshaft it had. Average readings seem to run 16"-18" inches at idle and 18"-21" at 1000 RPM. The only sure comparison is a reading taken when your car was performing at its best through all the RPM ranges and what it is doing now. Use one of the spare ports on the vacuum tree that is mounted on the firewall near the windshield wiper motor.

Use a squirt can of motor oil to squirt around the mating surfaces of the manifold & TB. The oil will be sucked into the leaking area and the engine will change speed. Avoid using flammable substitutes for the oil such as starting fluid, propane or throttle body cleaner. Fire is an excellent hair removal agent, and no eyebrows is not cool...

The vacuum line plumbing is old and brittle on many of these cars, so replacing the lines with new hose is a good plan. The common 1/8” and ¼” vacuum hose works well and isn’t expensive.

The PCV grommet and the power brake booster check valve grommet are two places that often get overlooked when checking for vacuum leaks. The rubber grommets get hard and lose their ability to seal properly. The PVC grommet is difficult to see if it is correctly seated and fitting snugly.

Fuel injector O rings can get old and hard. When they do, they are prone to leaking once the engine warms up. This can be difficult to troubleshoot, since it is almost impossible to get to the injectors to squirt oil into the fuel injector mounting bosses. If the plastic caps on the fuel injectors (pintle caps) are missing, the O rings will slide off the injectors and fall into the intake manifold.

Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3-$4 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:
http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber. Heat the pintle caps in boiling water to soften them to make them easier to install.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...

Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. I don't care what you spray with, you won't find the leak when it is sucking air from the lifter valley. It simply isn't possible to spray anything in there with the lower manifold bolted in place.

92fiveohT5 · Nov 14, 2014

Is it possible that my ecu got fried from the accident, because when I got the car back from the tow yard, they left the headlights on and the ignition on and the battery was shorted through the wiring becoming grounded and shorted from the damage. That ecu is the one I have in the car now.

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