Need Tranny Help

[chris454ss1970]

New to the board, 1st post. Nice web site. My wife has a '65 Coupe 6-cylinder car. I have located a '66 Hi-Po 289 for it. I also want to change it from a 3-speed to a 4-speed. I bought a 4-speed not knowing if it will fit for sure. It's supposed to be out of a 75 Mustang 2 and that it should work in my car with no problem. Here are the numbers off of the case:
RF-D42R-7222-AA
13-32-097-901
Here are the numbers off of the tag:
RAD-C1 5C05
D4ZR-BA 166319
What bell housing do I need to try and find? Any help would be appreciated. This some of my first dealings with swapping various year parts on a Ford. I personally have been a Chevy for all my life, but I admire and appreciate all form of classic detroit iron. Thanks.

Chris

 

[steel1212]

Hehe, your going to get some snide remarks with that name. But anyway if that 4 speed is the same as the early 4 speed then just go on ebay and find a 4 speed bell for small block. It all should bolt right up.

 

[chris454ss1970]

Thanks for the reply, not sure what the tranny fits. I don't mind any snide remarks, it makes the world go around. This is my wifes ride, mine is a '70 Chevelle.

 

[D.Hearne]

Welcome Chevy guy Now the BAD news: See if you can get your money back on that Stang II 4 speed. It's not a good "performance" 4 speed. What you want is called a "Toploader" 4 speed. These were produced from 64-74 in about a hundred different variations. For complete info, go to www.4speedtoploaders.com. This is David Kee's website.(his business is just "down the road apiece" in San Antone, Tx) He has rebuilt and completely new Toploaders for sale, plus parts to rebuild them. ( they're somewhat easy to rebuild yourself) Or you may want to consider going with a 5 speed, since you're starting from scratch.

 

[hrspwrjunkie]

Hi Chris,

Converting a 6-Cylinder car to a V8 car requires quite a bit in a Mustang. Rear End swap (to a 5-lug 9-inch in the case of a Hi-Po car) a Toploader 4-speed, as mentioned above, go to www.4speedtoploader.com and a complete suspension and brake swap to the GT option package if you want to keep control of the motor and drivetrain. Originally, the Hi-Po cars in '65 were available with 3.50:1, 3.89:1 and 4.11:1 gears with Traction-Loc (limited-slip) differentials.

The sad part is that the 6-cylinder cars chassis were much weaker than the V8 chassis and need a complete change out. Including the front spindles. The Hi-Po cars also used not only 5-lug hubs with larger brakes, but the fronts were disc and the 6-cylinder brakes are so weak that they really shouldn't have been put on a car to begin with.

Hope that helps.

Ryan

BTW, you'll find me on www.chevelles.com by the same name.

New to the board, 1st post. Nice web site. My wife has a '65 Coupe 6-cylinder car. I have located a '66 Hi-Po 289 for it. I also want to change it from a 3-speed to a 4-speed. I bought a 4-speed not knowing if it will fit for sure. It's supposed to be out of a 75 Mustang 2 and that it should work in my car with no problem. Here are the numbers off of the case:
RF-D42R-7222-AA
13-32-097-901
Here are the numbers off of the tag:
RAD-C1 5C05
D4ZR-BA 166319
What bell housing do I need to try and find? Any help would be appreciated. This some of my first dealings with swapping various year parts on a Ford. I personally have been a Chevy for all my life, but I admire and appreciate all form of classic detroit iron. Thanks.

Chris

 

[chris454ss1970]

Thanks for the info guys. I found a top loader in the Dallas area for $150, needs a little work, not sure what. What do I need to get a 5-speed out of and other parts as well, I've heard this isn't an easy swap. I bought a '66 donor car for parts, mainley drive line. The '65 now has all V-8 supension under it, best to my knowladge any ways. I installed the rear end and leafs, the rear looks like a 8", it does have 5 lug pattern, not sure on the ratio. I changed all the front end parts out, springs, spindles, control arms, and put disc with 5 lug pattern as well. hrspwrjunkie I use the same screen name on Team Chevelle. Thanks again

 

[D.Hearne]

As for what 5 speed? That depends on how much you want to spend. Used T-5's go for about what a Toploader "core" goes for. ( but the Toploader is bullit proof the T-5 isn't) Better than the T-5 is a Tremec 3550 or it's beefed up versions. The T-5 has it's own unique bellhousing pattern, the Tremec uses the older Toploader pattern, but needs a deeper bell for it's 1" longer input. The late 70's to early 80's SROD 4 speed bell fits the Tremec. Another plus to the Tremec is you can move the shifter to, two other positions with a kit. Now, about that Toploader core you mentioned: If it's an earlier close or wide ratio Toploader, that $150 price is a steal. Core's usually go for two to three times that. Just be carefull it's not a later 70's to 80's overdrive Toploader. These are easy to spot, they have a bulge in the rightside of the main case to accomodate the overdrive cluster gear.

 

[hrspwrjunkie]

If it helps, most of the toploader 4-speeds have wasted gears in them and they need to be replaced...especially 1st and 2nd. Also, the Ford Toploaders have tail housings that are different for every application. So if you've got a Falcon, Fairlane or Galaxy transmission, it will have a different shifter mount position.

If it really is a Hi-Po motor, you will need more gear than what came in the 8-inchers from the factory for it to run correctly as the cam is a pretty gnarly mechanical cam, especially for the little 289 (over 220 degrees duration on intake and exhaust). Also, the Hi-Po transmission is a close ratio unit that is geared to work better with the power band of the Hi-Po engine.

Five speed swaps aren't that bad actually. Comparing the cost of a properly converted 4-speed car (with a correctly rebuilt Toploader) to the cost of converting to a T5Z, they are comparable. I've researched this conversion very thoroughly myself. As far as going with a Tremec swap, everything I've read states that the transmission tunnel will probably need recessing to fit the bulkier body of the Tremec.

Ryan

Thanks for the info guys. I found a top loader in the Dallas area for $150, needs a little work, not sure what. What do I need to get a 5-speed out of and other parts as well, I've heard this isn't an easy swap. I bought a '66 donor car for parts, mainley drive line. The '65 now has all V-8 supension under it, best to my knowladge any ways. I installed the rear end and leafs, the rear looks like a 8", it does have 5 lug pattern, not sure on the ratio. I changed all the front end parts out, springs, spindles, control arms, and put disc with 5 lug pattern as well. hrspwrjunkie I use the same screen name on Team Chevelle. Thanks again

 

[Steve69]

I Agree with Horsepower Junkie.

 

[chris454ss1970]

Thanks for the info guys. As far as this alleged Hi-Po 289 I've found for sale the guy has yet to produce it, says he wants $400 for it. I want to see it so I can get the numbers off the motor and check it out. I'm not dead set on putting a Hi-Po motor in this car, just a small V-8 with a little cam. To me a muscle or pony car doesn't sound right with out a throaty growl. The guy that has the top loader is supposed to get me some numbers so I can try and get it checked out. He said it needed 3rd gear synchro's in it. Thanks again for the info.

Chris

 

[D.Hearne]

Thanks for the info guys. As far as this alleged Hi-Po 289 I've found for sale the guy has yet to produce it, says he wants $400 for it. I want to see it so I can get the numbers off the motor and check it out. I'm not dead set on putting a Hi-Po motor in this car, just a small V-8 with a little cam. To me a muscle or pony car doesn't sound right with out a throaty growl. The guy that has the top loader is supposed to get me some numbers so I can try and get it checked out. He said it needed 3rd gear synchro's in it. Thanks again for the info.

Chris

If he only wants $400 for it, then I doubt it's a "geniune" Hi-po 289. More likely it's a std 289 that's had a few goodies added to it. The geniune 289 Hi-po had a different block, crank, heads and a few other different parts in it. Just from the outset, it looks like the std 289 4 bbl motor, and to the uninformed, it's easy to fool someone into thinking it's a Hi-po. Two easy ways to tell them apart are to remove the valve covers and oilpan. The Hi-po heads had cast-in spring pockets, the std 289's didn't. They also had screw in studs and I think guide plates ( not sure here, the std heads also had slots to guide the pushrods, so guide plates weren't needed) As for the oilpan, remove it and check the main caps, the Hi-po's had thicker caps ( but also 2 bolt like the std 289) The rods also had 3/8" bolts ( 9/16" nuts vs 5/16" on the std 289) There were other differences too, but more than I have time to list here. On the Toploader, the syncros ( actually called blocker rings) are easy to change. As for it needing new gears, the synco teeth are what wears first, so check them to see if they're worn down. Yea, some Toploaders will need new gears after thirty something years, but not all. I bought one on ebaymotors four years ago for $150 D the seller mis-listed it )and it needed nothing. I've had it in my V8 Ranger since and it's performed flawlessly.

 

[hrspwrjunkie]

What you and your wife might really enjoy is dropping a 5.0/T5 combo in it. A stock 5.0 with correct rear gearing and a good chassis that can plant the power can really hustle a car down the road (faster than the Fox-bodied cars because the first gen cars are really light).

With a little more cam and some careful attention to matching components a stock 5.0 can give you that growl and be a serious performer.

Ryan

Thanks for the info guys. As far as this alleged Hi-Po 289 I've found for sale the guy has yet to produce it, says he wants $400 for it. I want to see it so I can get the numbers off the motor and check it out. I'm not dead set on putting a Hi-Po motor in this car, just a small V-8 with a little cam. To me a muscle or pony car doesn't sound right with out a throaty growl. The guy that has the top loader is supposed to get me some numbers so I can try and get it checked out. He said it needed 3rd gear synchro's in it. Thanks again for the info.

Chris