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Need Urgent Help After Rebuild!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Alex Kraczek
  • Start date Start date Oct 28, 2015
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jrichker

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#21
  • Nov 1, 2015
  • #21
Alex Kraczek said:
Thanks alot for the input guys. I performed the pump test with car off. Hot oil- 42 psi. I could not get it to go over that. I pulled the pan down, made sure the mating surface was clean, and put a gasket in there. Primed it, got it to 55psi (cold). My pressures havent changed a bit since the gasket install. Im just going to let it ride. Any other input guys?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Time for a high volume oil pump and an ARP or Ford Racing oil pump shaft.

And for those of you who have mistakenly embraced the Internet myth that a high volume oil pump will pump the oil pan dry, here's some eye opening news...



Thanks to Stangnet member bubba-dough for helping to educate all of us by finding this article...

http://www.mellingengine.com/Portals/5/pdf/pdf_catalog/high-volume-pumps.pdf You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – Adobe Acrobat Reader DC Install for all versions

From the Melling site, for those who didn't follow the link & read the tech note...



High Volume Pumps: Advantages, Myths & Fables

Most of the stock automobile engines are designed to operate from idle to 4500 RPM. The original volume and pressure oil pump will work fine in this type of application. As the demands on the engine increase so does the demands on the oiling system and pump.

The oil pump's most difficult task is to supply oil to the connecting rod bearing that is the farthest from the pump. To reach this bearing, the oil travels from three to four feet, turns numerous square corners thru small holes in the crankshaft to the rod bearing. The rod bearing doesn't help matters. It is traveling in a circle which means centrifugal force is pulling the oil out of the bearing.

A 350 Chevy has a 3.4811 stroke and a 2.111 rod journal. The outer edge of the journal travels 17.5311 every revolution. At 1000 RPM, the outer edge is traveling at 16.6 MPH and 74.7 MPH at 4500 RPM. If we take this engine to 6500 the outer edge is up to 107.9 and at 8500 it is 141.1 MPH. Now imagine driving a car around a curve at those speeds and you can feel the centrifugal force. Now imagine doing it around a circle with a 5.581, diameter.

The size of the gears or rotors determines the amount of oil a pump can move at any given RPM. Resistance to this movement creates the pressure. If a pump is not large enough to meet the demands of the engine, there will not be any pressure. Or if the demands of the engine are increased beyond the pumps capabilities there will be a loss of oil pressure. This is where high volume pumps come in; they take care of any increased demands of the engine.

Increases in the engine's oil requirements come from higher RPM, being able to rev faster, increased bearing clearances, remote oil cooler and/or filter and any combination of these. Most high volume pumps also have a increase in pressure to help get the oil out to the bearings faster.

That is what a high volume pump will do. Now let Is consider what it will not do.


It will not replace a rebuild in a worn-out engine. It may increase pressure but the engine is still worn-out.

It will not pump the oil pan dry. Both solid and hydraulic lifters have metering valves to limit flow of the oil to the top of the engine. If a pan is pumped dry, it is because the holes that drain oil back to the pan are plugged. If the high volume pump is also higher pressure, there will be a slight increase in flow to the top.

It will not wear out distributor gears. The load on the gear is directly related to the resistance to flow. Oil pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. The Ford 427 FE "side oiler" used a pump with relief valve set at 125 psi and it used a standard distributor gear. Distributor gear failures are usually caused by a worn gear on a new cam gear and/or worn bearings allowing misalignment.

It will not cause foaming of the oil. With any oil pump, the excess oil not needed by the engine is recirculated within the pump. Any additional foaming is usually created by revving the engine higher. The oil thrown from the rod bearings is going faster and causes the foaming. This is why high performance engines use a windage tray.

It will not cause spark scatter. Because of the pump pressure there is a load on the distributor gear. The number of teeth on the oil pump gears determine the number of impulses per revolution of the pump. In a SB Chevy there are seven teeth on each gear giving 14 impulses per revolution. At 6000 RPM the oil pump is turning 3000 RPM or 50 revolutions per second. To have an effect on the distributor, these impulses would have to vibrate the distributor gear through an intermediate shaft that has loose connections at both ends. Spark scatter is usually caused by weak springs in the points or dust inside the distributor cap.

High volume pumps can be a big advantage if used where needed. If installed in an engine that does not need the additional volume, they will not create a problem. The additional flow will be recirculated within the pump.
 
A

Alex Kraczek

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#22
  • Nov 1, 2015
  • #22
It already has a high volume pump and arp shaft!
 

RangerJoe

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#23
  • Nov 2, 2015
  • #23
I think you will be fine. It's not the oil pressure we are use to with these motors, but I think it is enough. Did you ask the builder about it?

Joe
 
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Alex Kraczek

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#24
  • Nov 2, 2015
  • #24
Thanks alot for the info Joe. The builder has not gotten back to me yet. Would it he beneficial for me to install an oil cooler and put a 160 stat in to bring oil temps down?
 

MFE92

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#25
  • Nov 2, 2015
  • #25
I'm in the exact same boat with a brand new, never fired M-6007-E50 302 crate engine built by the Ford factory on a virgin block. Blackstone oil analysis on the 2nd fill after break-in showed nothing alarming. Running the same Autometer mechanical pressure gauge with the same plumbing as my old engine, at 180 degrees, running Mobil1 15w/50 (because of hard track use and high track oil temps) my idle oil pressure is 30-32 and highway cruise is at 50-ish. Check!

However, at 270 degrees oil temp (typical for the track), idle pressure is 25-30, but it won't get above 40 psi even at 5500+ RPM. It's almost like the pressure relief valve softens up with the heat. I'm awaiting another oil analysis but the general consensus I've received so far is "meh...don't worry about it".
 
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Alex Kraczek

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#26
  • Nov 2, 2015
  • #26
Interesting. Do you have an oil cooler installed? Seems like awfully high oil temps at 270, no?
 

MFE92

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#27
  • Nov 2, 2015
  • #27
That's with a cooler in the drivers fenderwell so it's not dumping heat into the radiator. 270 isn't too hot, but it is why I run such heavy oil, to preserve viscosity and shear resistance at high temps. Oil temp over 300 would concern me.
 

JD1964

there is enough sticking out to grab on to
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#28
  • Nov 3, 2015
  • #28
I wouldnt worry too much with a 20 hot idle and a 40 at higher rpm. Especially if you run a good full synthetic oil like Mobil1 10-30. The stuff is great. As long as it's there at the surfaces, your good to go.

What oil have you been running?
 
A

Alex Kraczek

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May 7, 2012
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Nov 3, 2015
#29
  • Nov 3, 2015
  • #29
Reading more about synthetic oil, it is definitely a better oil by far. Currently I am running 20w50 house brand from Autozone, car runs great. I used 5w30 for break in (50 miles or so) then drained it because my oil pressure was in the low to mid 30s at 3500-5000 rpm. That made me feel a little uncomfortable. Now, fully hot (after getting on it a few times and in traffic) it sees 38psi at WOT at the lowest. I find that acceptable, I even called mellings and the tech said i should be fine. Like you said, as long as the cam bearings are getting oil pressure i should be OK. A machinist that fixed my head recently told me you only truly need 20-30 psi to feed the top end. Im assuming flow is more important at this point.
 

JD1964

there is enough sticking out to grab on to
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#30
  • Nov 3, 2015
  • #30
I use straight 30 weight on break in then go to Mobil1 10-30
 
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