Negative Wedge Kits for 67?

[Snail50]

I know that many of you have done the Shelby drop, and I certainly respect that as a valid option for lowering the front end/better suspension geometry.

However, through the research I've done and from advice I've gotten from everyone on here, it seems that the Shelby drop is ideal for 65 & 66 Mustangs, but the benefits are for a 67 are not so great due to the suspension changes that were implemented in 67. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

So anyway, I'm thinking that rather than Shelb my front end, I will probably go with a negative wedge kit. (hey, it's only money. ) I'm hoping to get feedback from those of you who have Neg Wedge kits, such as which kind would you recommend, where did you get them, ease of install, cost, etc. ANY and ALL relevant advice is GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks all.

 

[DarkBuddha]

I thought the Shelby drop was equally valid for '67-'70 cars... the negative wedge kit is essentially designed to allow for doing an exagerated Shelby drop, and thus exagerate the benefits of doing the drop.

Anyway, I've got the wedge kit on my Mach, and I can attest to its effectiveness. Handling is improved, and seems more responsive, and it lowered the ride height probably right around an inch. I'm only aware of one place commercially producing the negative wedge kit, Pro-motorsports Engineering (https://www.pro-motorsports.com/store/products.asp?id=2 ), who I believe are the originators of the kit. I know its kinda pricey, but I think its a worthwile investment if you're planning on keeping the stock style front suspension. You might get lucky like me and find a kit on eBay... I found mine for $125 brand new, never opened... of course, that was back in 2001.

Hope this helps...

 

[Snail50]

Thanks, DB. was the kit complete and easy to install?

 

[DarkBuddha]

Very easy to install... remove uppper arms, drill new holes in shock tower using the included metal template plates, bolt on the new wedge and ball joints using the included longer grade 8 bolts, reassemble front suspension. The only tough part is that it does require disassembling the suspension, which wasn't a problem for me since I was rebuilding the suspension anyways. BTW, this would be a good time to consider adding the eccentric eliminators too...

 

[Snail50]

I'm a little bit familiar with the front suspension, so disassembly shouldn't be too much problem. I'll probably do a bumpsteer kit at the same time.

eccentric eliminator? I don't know what that is.

 

[Snail50]

ttt

 

[Opentracker]

Check out what this guy did to his '67 upper arms. I do the same thing to '65-'66 arms. Much cheaper than a wedge kit and a lot safer in my opinion.Free Wedge Kit -LINK-

John

 

[66P51GT]

Send "usedtobe 67p51d" a PM. Last I spoke with him he had a set of wedges (not the whole kit) for a '67.

 

[HistoricMustang]

Am sure they help a bit, but I am not a fan of anything that adds cost, needs adjusting or might fall off while I am at speed.

Good Luck.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

 

[Hack]

Check out what this guy did to his '67 upper arms. I do the same thing to '65-'66 arms. Much cheaper than a wedge kit and a lot safer in my opinion.Free Wedge Kit -LINK-

John

That's a terrific idea... if you REALLY trust your welding and fabricating skills.

I'd best not try it.

 

[Snail50]

That's a terrific idea... if you REALLY trust your welding and fabricating skills.

I'd best not try it.

Same here. no fabricating for me.

 

[Opentracker]

Fabrication is fun, check out the lower arm project. A spherical bearing on the inside pivot, full length brace and a screw in ball joint. The bearing and ball joint are replaceable so you never throw the arm away. If you can't do the work, have a shop do it. It's still cheaper than aftermarket parts.

John

 

[DarkBuddha]

Am sure they help a bit, but I am not a fan of anything that adds cost, needs adjusting or might fall off while I am at speed.

Good Luck.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Uh, Historic, I haven't been involved in any of your infamous threads of late, but I've got to comment here... specifically, there is no freaking way the wedge kit "might fall off", unless the entire ball joint fails, as well as all 3 (or 4) attaching bolts shear, neither of which is any more likely with the wedge kit than without. Also, the wedge kit does not require additional adjustment other than an alignment after installation. Finally, your low budget perspective is appreciated, but added costs can often be worthwhile purchases... I think it is more important to consider the cost effectiveness (cost to benefits ratio) rather than the whether it adds cost at all. Perhaps a bit more info on the kit would be beneficial... consider visiting Pro-motorsports site above...

 

[HistoricMustang]

DarkBuddha, you need to re-read the first six words of my post.

The other three points still apply to anything that is put on a race car, including negative wedge kits.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

 

[DarkBuddha]

DarkBuddha, you need to re-read the first six words of my post.

The other three points still apply to anything that is put on a race car, including negative wedge kits.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Historic, I noted the first 6 words, but they are irrelevant regarding your following 3 points. None of your 3 points address performance, but rather they state that you categorically dislike "anything that adds cost, needs adjusting or might fall off". Perhaps I'm misreading this, but I get the feeling that added cost, adjustment, and potential for failure are criteria that you use to determine the "value" of a part. I submit that almost every part on any vehicle either adds cost, requires some sort of adjustment, or has potential for failure and might fall off.

Anyway, I think your point here is your continued mantra of "you don't need anything extra", and thats ok. But you seem to have forgotten that some people sometimes want something extra, and thats ok too.

 

[Snail50]

I always want something extra...

 

[GypsyR]

The "Shelby drop" is just as valid an upgrade for your 67 as for earlier cars. Though the suspension was upgraded a bit, the actual design remained just about the same. Ford knew well that about 98% of their customers were not particularly skilled drivers and had no interest in roadracing. Therefore their suspension was designed with a "backwards" camber curve so as to be safer in emergency driving situations with grandma/16 year old/idiot/average joe behind the wheel. The suspension they designed did the job quite well. It compromised handling, but if you were after handling back in the day you would buy a Shelby or a Cobra or some foreign thing.
So for performance work we want to correct as much built in deficiency as possible. I I were rich, I'd just drop my car off at the Griggs facility. I'm not and neither are most people, so we look for other ways.
The Shelby drop. Hard to beat the price, just labor and an oddball size drill bit. It goes a long way in bringing the camber curve to something useful on a roadcourse action (or more fun on backroads). Not ideal though, lowering the upper arm about 3/4" more gives you about the best camber curve you're going to get using stock parts. If you go that extra bit beyond the Shelby spec, then the balljoint no longer has all the travel it's supposed too. So the angle of the balljoint needs to be changed so it again can travel it's full range of motion.
One way is to just stick a shim under it, which is all the "Negative Wedge Kit" actually is. Obviously some folks aren't into the "stick a shim under it" method of solving such problems. I've made my own shim to do this (one side). Upon looking at it really hard I decided to not use it. I like the looks of Opentracker's work and doing the same will fit into my budget. Plus I like to make stuff.
For those who can afford it, a simple phone call to TCP, Global West, etc will fix you up with a pair of new upper arms with all that camber stuff taken care of.
Does all this work? Sure. Some guy named Carroll figured out that it did 40 years ago and I've yet to hear of anyone proving him wrong. Personally, I suspect some Ford engineer told him something like "by the way, if you want your cars to handle better, you'd better change that production camber curve as it sucks on roadcourses."

 

[Opentracker]

This is a wedge kit for a three bolt upper arm. Can anyone not see the problem with this idea? It takes away your ability to use a rim with the proper backspacing for a track car or a street car with wide tires. It gives the ball joint more leverage to break the bolts or stress the ball joint mounting area of the upper arm under braking. In my opinion it is not a good idea. This is just my opinion and I could be wrong.

John


(edit) - I wish I had carpet like that in my garage!

 

[GypsyR]

John, kind of what I saw when I mocked up my four-bolt. Except that my "wedge" wasn't gaping open on the outside. I agree, that particular 3 bolt setup doesn't "look" good at all. On mine with a Granada spindle and a 7 inch wide 15" aluminum rim I was fooling with for mockup purposes, the rim rubbed the end of the arm after I put my wedge in. The bolts I wouldn't worry about too much, part of the "kit" is you have to drill the upper arm for the larger bolts they provide. They provide the extra shear strength needed. Not a bad idea to use the bigger bolts with a modified arm either I think.

 

[Opentracker]

I have never had a wedge kit. The bigger bolts would help a lot. I don't like the idea of spacing the ball joint away from the arm and charging so much to do it. The mod I do is free if you can do the work. I have never heard of a wedge kit breaking and we may never hear of one breaking, I don't think it's a good idea. It just doesn't look right!

John


PS - So does anyone like my lower arm idea?


(edit) - Does anyone have carpet like that in thier garage?