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Drivetrain Neutral Safety Switch (nss)

  • Thread starter Thread starter fredfifty
  • Start date Start date Aug 21, 2017
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Mustang5L5

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Nov 29, 2017
#21
  • Nov 29, 2017
  • #21
fredfifty said:
can I use the 5 Spd trans harness with the AOD 0xygen sensor harness? I currently have an a9p ecm if that should be mentioned.
Click to expand...

Yes. Trans harness doesn't matter. I currently have a 5-spd trans harness with an AOD ECU and o2 sensor harness.

I'm about to swap to mass air using an A9L. I NEED to change the o2 harness jumper to match that of a 5-spd. You do not need to buy a new harness for this. You just need to pull the red clip out of the plug where the jumper is, remove the pin in the wrong location and move it to the correct spot and reinsert the red tab. Very easy. Don't buy a new harness if you don't need one.

However, if you are staying put with the A9P, there is no need to change the o2 harness. The 5-spd transmission harness will work fine. Leave the AOD o2 harness alone.
 
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fredfifty

5 Year Member
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Nov 29, 2017
#22
  • Nov 29, 2017
  • #22
thanks, I appreciate the info
 

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
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59
SF Bay Area
Nov 29, 2017
#23
  • Nov 29, 2017
  • #23
Mustang5L5 said:
Yes. Trans harness doesn't matter. I currently have a 5-spd trans harness with an AOD ECU and o2 sensor harness.

I'm about to swap to mass air using an A9L. I NEED to change the o2 harness jumper to match that of a 5-spd. You do not need to buy a new harness for this. You just need to pull the red clip out of the plug where the jumper is, remove the pin in the wrong location and move it to the correct spot and reinsert the red tab. Very easy. Don't buy a new harness if you don't need one.

However, if you are staying put with the A9P, there is no need to change the o2 harness. The 5-spd transmission harness will work fine. Leave the AOD o2 harness alone.
Click to expand...
hey, would you happen to know if it would be better to use the 93 cobra ecm with the 93 cobra MAF calibrated for 24 lb injectors (which i have). the CAI i would be using is my current bbk fenderwell.
 

fredfifty

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Dec 2, 2017
#24
  • Dec 2, 2017
  • #24
So i ran the manual wiring harness outside the car to the plugs on the tranny (as a test to see if the car would start). I also pulled the jumper plug and plugged in the two plug harnesses into the clutch pedal safety switch. Pushed clutch in and no start/no crank no nada.

All the plugs are seated in harnesses correctly. Could it be the switch on the clutch pedal?

Also, after that i decided to wire it back to originally how it was. After i did, now it cranks but doesnt start...unless i tap the gas, then it will but it runs like fuel is low and some little white smoke is coming out the exhaust. It wasnt like that before but t was running rich. Not alot of info i know guys...but do you know if its possible the computer might have damaged? I dont see how, i undid the battery while working on it.
 

jrichker

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#25
  • Dec 2, 2017
  • #25
Dump the codes...

Dump codes sticky

Look at the top of the 5.0 Tech forum where the sticky threads are posted. One of them is how to dump the computer codes. Codes may be present even if the CEL (Check Engine Light) isn’t on. You don’t need a code reader or scanner – all you need is a paper clip, or if your lady friend has a hair pin, that will do the job.
I highly suggest that you read it and follow the instructions to dump the codes. http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-to-pull-codes-from-eec4.889006/
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,216
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Dec 3, 2017
#26
  • Dec 3, 2017
  • #26
The only additional wiring on the manually trans harness is the two wires for the NGS. Shouldn't effect anything how the car runs. So if you unplug the NGS plug on the manual trans harness from the trans, it's no different than the way it was wired before.

For the clutch pedal, it could be the switch on the pedal itself. There's an adjustment rod that sets when the switch closes when you press the clutch pedal in that might need adjusting, or the switch needs to be replaced.

I'd dump th codes as well. You didn't happen to accidentally unplug any of the other harnesses in the kick panel as well did you?
 
Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

fredfifty

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Dec 3, 2017
#27
  • Dec 3, 2017
  • #27
OK for some reason now i can dump codes, and i got 12, 23, 42, 23, 4
 

fredfifty

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#28
  • Dec 3, 2017
  • #28
The codes were dumped doing KOEO. Not sure on that 4, but it was four flashes
 
Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
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Dec 3, 2017
#29
  • Dec 3, 2017
  • #29
Mustang5L5 said:
The only additional wiring on the manually trans harness is the two wires for the NGS. Shouldn't effect anything how the car runs. So if you unplug the NGS plug on the manual trans harness from the trans, it's no different than the way it was wired before.

For the clutch pedal, it could be the switch on the pedal itself. There's an adjustment rod that sets when the switch closes when you press the clutch pedal in that might need adjusting, or the switch needs to be replaced.

I'd dump th codes as well. You didn't happen to accidentally unplug any of the other harnesses in the kick panel as well did you?
Click to expand...
No, i didnt unplug anything else. I double checked all plugs i came in close contact with while installing the manual harness
 

fredfifty

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Dec 3, 2017
#30
  • Dec 3, 2017
  • #30
Ok, so i decided to try and start the car and now no CEL. But, when running and i go to press clutch in and put into gear, the CEL goes on...when i shift out of gear and depress clutch, CEL goes off. The idle also surges when the clutch pedal is pressed, to about 1500
 
Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

jrichker

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#31
  • Dec 3, 2017
  • #31
fredfifty said:
OK for some reason now i can dump codes, and i got 12, 23, 42, 23, 4
Click to expand...


Fix the code 23 first then the code 42. At that point the code 2 may, and I repeat may have cleared. it also may not have cleared.


Code 23 - Throttle sensor out of range or throttle set too high - TPS needs to be reset to below 1.2 volts at idle. Keep in mind that when you turn the idle screw to set the idle speed, you change the TPS setting. [/b]


You'll need a Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job.

Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

Always use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage.

Do the test with the ignition switch in the Run position without the engine running.

Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.

When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks. Set it at .6.v-.9 v.

1. Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

2. When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

If setting the TPS doesn’t fix the problem, then you may have wiring problems.
With the power off, measure the resistance between the black/white wire and battery ground. You should see less than 2 ohms. Check the same black /white wire on the TPS and MAP/Baro sensor. More than 1 ohm there and the wire is probably broken in the harness between the engine and the computer. The 10 pin connectors pass the black/white wire back to the computer, and can cause problems.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.



Code 42 & 92 & 137 & 173 (engine running) System rich - Fuel control or (memory) System was rich for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching) - Fuel control. Look for leaking injectors, fuel pressure too high, cylinder(s) not firing due to bad ignition.

Code 42 passenger side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat
Code 92 is the driver side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat..

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.


Backside view of the computer wiring connector:


87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.



There is a fuse link for the O2 sensor heater power. According to Ranchero50, it is in the wiring near the passenger side hood hinge. Measuring the voltages will give a clue if it has shorted to the O2 sensor signal lead. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.[/b]
 
Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
318
57
59
SF Bay Area
Dec 4, 2017
#32
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #32
jrichker said:
Fix the code 23 first then the code 42. At that point the code 2 may, and I repeat may have cleared. it also may not have cleared.


Code 23 - Throttle sensor out of range or throttle set too high - TPS needs to be reset to below 1.2 volts at idle. Keep in mind that when you turn the idle screw to set the idle speed, you change the TPS setting. [/b]


You'll need a Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job.

Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

Always use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage.

Do the test with the ignition switch in the Run position without the engine running.

Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.

When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks. Set it at .6.v-.9 v.

1. Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

2. When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

If setting the TPS doesn’t fix the problem, then you may have wiring problems.
With the power off, measure the resistance between the black/white wire and battery ground. You should see less than 2 ohms. Check the same black /white wire on the TPS and MAP/Baro sensor. More than 1 ohm there and the wire is probably broken in the harness between the engine and the computer. The 10 pin connectors pass the black/white wire back to the computer, and can cause problems.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.



Code 42 & 92 & 137 & 173 (engine running) System rich - Fuel control or (memory) System was rich for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching) - Fuel control. Look for leaking injectors, fuel pressure too high, cylinder(s) not firing due to bad ignition.

Code 42 passenger side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat
Code 92 is the driver side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat..

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.


Backside view of the computer wiring connector:


87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.



There is a fuse link for the O2 sensor heater power. According to Ranchero50, it is in the wiring near the passenger side hood hinge. Measuring the voltages will give a clue if it has shorted to the O2 sensor signal lead. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.[/b]
Click to expand...
I did check the TPS and it was at .95-.97 but i used the upper intake head bolt as the ground along with the green wire on the TPS...with KOEO. I will try your recommended grounding point.

Any suggestions on the CEL coming on when i shift into gear and CEL off when i shift out of gear?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,216
17,899
224
Massachusetts
Dec 4, 2017
#33
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #33
fredfifty said:
Any suggestions on the CEL coming on when i shift into gear and CEL off when i shift out of gear?
Click to expand...

How is it wired now? Is the manual harness in with the NGS from the t5 plugged in?

Are the two plugs on the clutch pedal plugged in?

So CEL comes on when you press the clutch in? Try unplugging the NGS wire from the clutch switch and see if that goes away.

Something is amiss in the wiring here
 

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
318
57
59
SF Bay Area
Dec 4, 2017
#34
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #34
Mustang5L5 said:
How is it wired now? Is the manual harness in with the NGS from the t5 plugged in?

Are the two plugs on the clutch pedal plugged in?

So CEL comes on when you press the clutch in? Try unplugging the NGS wire from the clutch switch and see if that goes away.

Something is amiss in the wiring here
Click to expand...
tell me about it! the manual harness is in and I plugged in all 3 of the plugs that go to the trans (NSS, VSS, and reverse light switch). I do not have the 2 plugs in the clutch pedal safety switch, I have the jumper in the black right now. I am going to try and unplug the NSS from the trans and see if that helps.
 

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
318
57
59
SF Bay Area
Dec 9, 2017
#35
  • Dec 9, 2017
  • #35
Does this O2 harness look like the one i need according to the colors and the jumper location?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,216
17,899
224
Massachusetts
Dec 9, 2017
#36
  • Dec 9, 2017
  • #36
I'll have to check on Monday. Have some info on my work pc.

I'm literally doing the same thing you are. Speed density AOD to mass air 5-spd swap and using the A9L.

I swapped my trans harness without issue. About to do the Mass air switchover probably after the holidays and I need to remember to repin the o2 harness before I start it
 
Reactions: fredfifty

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
318
57
59
SF Bay Area
Dec 10, 2017
#37
  • Dec 10, 2017
  • #37
Alright, just swapped in an A9L and manual O2 harness....idles great now, and no CEL when i shift into gear. But it runs really rich (a bit richer than when i had the A9P in). Do i need to drive it so the computer can “learn” everything again?

I also did a KOEO, and code 11’s...KOER code 21
 
Last edited: Dec 10, 2017

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
318
57
59
SF Bay Area
Dec 10, 2017
#38
  • Dec 10, 2017
  • #38
Drove around the block. White smoke out of driver side tailpipe. Could the ecm swap be the cause?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,216
17,899
224
Massachusetts
Dec 10, 2017
#39
  • Dec 10, 2017
  • #39
Do a KOER test with engine running and see what you get for codes.

White smoke could just be condensation in the exhaust.
 

fredfifty

5 Year Member
Nov 23, 2011
318
57
59
SF Bay Area
Dec 10, 2017
#40
  • Dec 10, 2017
  • #40
Mustang5L5 said:
Do a KOER test with engine running and see what you get for codes.

White smoke could just be condensation in the exhaust.
Click to expand...
I did that, and came back with code 21. I think my ECT sensor is bad. I was looking at the test to do on it, which i may try. The smoke was actually smoke, not condensation. It was pretty bad.
 
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