Never heard pinging so I tried something, check it out.

Nice how they have there timing in so soon compared to our eec.

Those look like totals and I would guess that the total assumes 10* base still right .

IF that is total with 10* base (meaning that the total number given is also with the base timing not an adder). Then he would still be some 14* higher and that WOT area saw 30* at 5-6k so he would be at 44*...I just dont see how he wouldnt be pinging with that WOT in 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear .

95Vert said:

Thanks for that link but I have NO idea how to read it. lol

So there was no concensus on how many degrees are added for TT right? I had also heard about the TT working best between 34-36*.

Click to expand...

Well Nacho

In a nutshell the table tells you max load (wot) would be the top row
and
You can see the various rpm's there as well

Again ... this is WOT so it has nothing to do with idle setting

Looks like you should have around 27 degrees at WOT with a
dizzy setting at the factory setting of 10

Now say you set the dizzy at 16
then
You would add the value that is greater than 10 ... or 6 more
for
A total spark advance of 27 + 6

Grady

Look at the bottom of the page though Grady it has a WOT value that I am guessing is the above .75 load in the bigger table. That WOT value hits just over 30 at 5k and is 26.7 up to that so the higher rpm's at WOT would be well into the 40's with the extreme timing he had at first.

Well Greg

Again I'm not all that familiar with the Fox stuff
but
If I'm reading that Spark Table correctly

I see it along these lines

Load along the left side
and
RPM along the top

The smallest load appears to be along the bottom
and
The greatest RPM I see is 4K

Where do you see any representation of 5K values

It looks to me from a WOT perspective ..............

All the advance is basically in by 2500
and
remains the same to red line

As always ... don't wanna mislead anyone
so
If I've hosed up ... someone fix my mess up here

Wait ... Wait ... Wait

I see the additional data apart from the Spark Table

Is that data based solely upon RPM and RPM alone
if so
How different and bizarre is that

I mean ... does that over ride the top row of the table
cause
If it does ... its values are less than the original table

Ya'll don't follow me

I'm Smooth as a Goose ... Lost

Grady

Hey guys,
I didnt mean to toss some info out and run off. I have some info on the other puter regarding the comparison of curves from when I played with the 94's ignition. Unfortunately I dont have access to the other stuff right now.

You can see why I struggle to keep the fox stuff separate from the Alpha-4 (or whatever you call the family of 94-95) processors. The fox really segregates WOT from non-WOT. Once you hit 2.71 TPS volts above the ratcheted TPS baseline, that's WOT as far as the puter cares (this generally occurs at ~3.71 TPS volts). And at WOT, the puter switches gears and goes to look-up tables rather than the touchier-feelier [adaptive strategy] crap that the Alpha-4 computers use. The fox method can lead to nice richness, rather than the more adaptable Alpha-4 WOT A/F trim, which I have the feeling has a leaner commanded-value.

If anyone is trying to piece this together, here's some Air fuel ratio stuff for the A9L, in case it's a lot different than the typical Alpha-4 puter WOT trim (I haven't a clue about the latter). I thought seeing both might allow someone to see why the fox method works and the Alpha-4 doesnt.

Well JT

I was kinda sorta taken back by the difference between the two
family's of pcm's

I was attempting to help Nacho and I'm afraid I may have
added to the confusion or just done a really fine job of
mudding up the water here

I have been thinking about how that Fox stuff might work

It then came to me ... I've now seen this little surprising issue
as an opportunity to help some relate to just one advantage of being
able to data log

I can't tell you how many peeps have asked me Q's like ............
What do you do with the data
or
How can all that data help me

Here is a simple little example

Even though we don't deal with Fox stuff
and
Our pcm doesn't work like that

Still ... follow me for a second and see how you could use the data
to teach yourself the way a Fox works as far as spark values
between those two tables JT so kindly posted up for us all.

If you look at the spark table's top row it seems similar to
our spark table ... but ... as Greg pointed out ... there is that
other data at the very end and unlike that basic table ...
it provides rpm's up to 6K

If you look at the two ... it would seem the basic table gives
< values at 3K
but
The other data give > values at 4K to redline

With datalogging ... you put the dizzy at factory setting
and
do a baseline run to see the actual values.

You then work with the one of two options only ... make
another duplicate test pass ... you then got hard data
to show how your value adjustments effected the spark
curve.

Of course ... tons of info on Fox stuff is available
but
On some things ... like drivability issues ...

You can see several things might be helpful to fix a particular
issue you are trying to improve on

AND

You will not always be able to just copy what someone did
to achieve success with an issue you are currently working
on ... EVEN THOUGH ... the two of you may have very similar
combos

So ... Can you see the method to the madness now
In its most basic simple steps:

1) You pick the two or three suspected values
2) You get a baseline datalog
3) You change one value only
4) You do a duplicate pass of the baseline pass
5) You compare baseline data to changed data

Again ... Hope I did not hinder more than help

Grady

Ha ha, you got the fox III surging idle. J/K.

Seriously, the surging is super common. Since you are doing the fox processor, I might shoot Jason (VRIstang) a PM. He's kinda like Stangnet's Fox III version of Mr Grady (he was the one who led the way to get the fox guys a tuning sub-forum).

Jason knows the ins and outs of the A9 processors (408 with a TwEECer) and might have some suggestions.

Just another option and great guy to ask.

95Vert said:

Thanks a lot Grady and JT. This really helps to get a better idea of why I'm having driveability issues. Yesterday I was extremely fed up with my car. Some stupid things about everyday driving is driving me up the wall. stutters, missing, surging idle, exhaust low popping are just a few. i thought of just selling my car and getting a 98 cobra. I would just get the basic bolt ons and be running the same times I'm running with this one and won't have any driveability issues since I wouldn't mess with the cam or heads or anything. I don't know, that may seem easier than all this crap.

Click to expand...

Nacho my friend

I would hope you and all the other members on this board by now
have seen I do try and help everybody in our little community.

I also strive to not put anybody down or anything like that.

Now having said that
and
Since you have expressed your drivibality issues here

I'm gonna point out something
and
Its not directed at you Nacho
and
It's not some childish attempt on my part to say ... "I told you so"

You did the All Mighty A9L Fox pcm retro fit swap in your 94-95 Stang

You are NOT supposed to have these issues

You ARE supposed to have nothing but benefits

You ARE supposed to have left ........
ALL that finicky 94-95 pcm stuff behind with the swap

I think this is an observation that goes to show

You can't ALWAYS ... Believe everything "They" say

Yes ... some have have had good results with the swap
but
Not Everybody ... which it usually seems to be presented as

I do so wish this had worked out better for you

Nacho ... I know you are frustrated
and
I know many here are willing to help

Talk to us ... maybe we can find something

Grady

95Vert said:

I know^ That's what's so weird. I made sure it had load, was doing 40mph in 5th, then floored it and nothing.

Click to expand...

Try doing at higher revs, go 40mph and floor in 3rd, I don't think you will ping unless your at high rpm, my car on a sh1tty day wont ping til over 4500rpm, I dont think my car would ping in 5th if I was going 130 and floored it

my friend says disconnecting the EGR should make a car ping which is why he doesn't understand why people get rid of the egr

if you disable it in the Computer all will be fine, but disconnecting it without a tune will cause issues.

On an A9* computer, if you set an EGR code but keep the EGR position sensor capable, the computer is programmed to realize the EGR has an issue and shut off its function.

You know ... sometimes it can be the smallest things that can cause
drivability issues.

I can say for certain ..............

The smallest exhaust leak can ... maybe not always ...
suck in additional air that throws off the O2's reading

Over the years, I've seen peeps change out parts, make all kinds
of pcm value changes, and such, to try and fix an unstable Closed
Loop portion of the tune.

They later reported they found:
Vacuum Leak
Electrical Connection
Unmetered Air Issue
Exhaust Leak
or other simple but over looked issues

Make sure you got everything along those lines like it should be

Thats where I'd start to make some headway Nacho

Grady