New clutch sudder and vibration.

Exile918

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Oct 16, 2014
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So finally pulled the trans down to replace the slave and this time properly bench bleed it before install and everything for the most part went well. I put in a exedy stage 1 mach 350 clutch kit had the flywheel resurfaced and everything torqued down to spec. Once everything was bled on the first take off in first gear immediately the clutch grabbed as i let off almost stalling and as the clutch felt like it was engaging the car felt lkke it was shacking and the clutch felt like it was shuddering or chattering or both. Once engaged the ar accelerated nice and the shifting was smooth.everytime i take off in first gear its almost implssible to take off smoothly and the car shakes bad and shudders like crazy. I called Exedy and theyre telling me that its normal and that it will go away after break in??? Help
 
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Bullitt95

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So what would Exedy suggest if it doesn't go away after break-in? Did they even specify how long the break-in should be?
Sounds like BS to me. I've never had a new clutch shudder on me so I definitely don't think it's normal.
 

08GT500

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Jul 12, 2018
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Hi, Sorry to hear, Certain performance race Clutches with Ceramics & Street/Strip w/softer materials may both exhibit a slight shudder when new & engaging, cleared up in short duration. About 125-150 Cycles, Hot/Cold..
I’d installed many Clutches, but never a Mach1 Exedy 350, 2 Local Car Club friends do, however. I’d driven one & it grabs very quick and hard, one of the 2 had a similar issue to yours, felt like it was really out of balance. Eventually pulled it apart, shattered Pilot Bearing.
He’d noted a big difference in mannerism vs. the other Car running one adding the McLeod or Exedy Hydraulic Throwout Bearing/Slave Cylinder (Thought OE Slave May be a little weak in controlled Compression of the Clutch Springs) an SR Performance Braided Stainless Steel Hydraulic Clutch Line.
A full Car Shudder as described, and rechecked & verified all the Bellhousing Bolts are exerting a full clamp force & are not bottoming out, crossmember is in solid, Motormounts & Tranny mounts bolted tight, solid or rubber, are all of the same type, one or the other, etc- I’d try to rebleed it, again, with a Mityvac Vacuum bleeder, see if it helps.
You can also have someone engage, disengage, so you can get an earpiece Stethoscope in the Bell, Disc will likely have random runout if the Pilot bearing is affected, enough to pick up with no Dynamic load on it (out of gear, on stands, P.B.On). If you scan reviews on AM, the general consensus is that it does grab pretty fast & hard, takes some time getting used to. Hydraulically- there’s no reason you shouldn’t be possible to control the speed rate, slightly- to ease Clamp force rate, without causing slippage.
If you’re idling, can you feel any vibrations, fingers on the lower Steering wheel, how about with the Clutch depressed, any difference? Did you use Exedy’s Pilot Bearing, or OE?
At least the Modular Motors are Zero balance, so exact lineup won’t cause vibration, as they’re all Internally balanced.
So, it’s not the install, it’s just a matter of dialing it in, breaking it in. Hopefully nothing beyond that. Will bec able to help more with the additional information.
Until then, good luck! John
 

Exile918

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Oct 16, 2014
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Thanks guys! The tech said it would take about 500 mes of break in so the clutch can be "bedded" properly and so that it can get smooth. For the most part it shifts pretty good alot better than before. I had the same clutch before however last time we didnt bench bleed the slave and because of that it seems that i always had engagement issues. Now the clutch pedal feels consistent with the exception of the clutch engagement. Im very familiar with this clutch setup so i know how to smoothly take off in first gear however my main concern is with the shuddering and crazy vibration that i get only in first gear and reverse. I will call again and ask whats next if im having iasues after 500 miles.. Slave is Exedy brand and i went with ford racing pilot bearing. I will definately try to use the vacuum pump and see if there still air in there i doubt thats the issue. For this install my dad and i made sure everything was torqued properly all bellhousing bolts should be snug all around. There is no vibration at idle or when the pedal is depressed. What i Really want out of this clutch set up is something linear with clut h engagement. Thats what my biggest gripe is. With all the shuddering and chatter and vibration im getting somewhat annoyed and worried. At this moment tje only recommendations ive gotten from Exedy is to break it in. My worry is that it will not break in properly if tge damb thing is hell to engage it smoothly with all that shudder..
 

08GT500

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No worries, I’d have a raised eyebrow with a severe “shudder” as described, when I’d had Customers with concerns, it was generally because of the different pedal feeling and effort, I’d be certain of no independent movements of the Trans to Motor, Rubber Mounts intact, etc, as I’d mentioned above.
I’d try this, but consider throwing it up safely on a lift, or on 6-8 Jackstands & watching it engage/disengage, add resistance via Parking brake. You could, as I did- stick a Borescope in & watch it, record it, see if Pressure plate to Clutch disc to Flywheel clearance is inadequate when the Clutch is depressed- comparing engine on, to off.
Any air or less fluid than required within the System will reduce the Pressure plate’s travel, and may cause it to clamp quickly at the last mm’s of travel towards Clutch closure...Air compresses- fluid doesn’t.
May also be a Mechanical flaw in the Springs being of unequal tension on the pressure plate, causing one Clutch Disc side to catch first, not equally. If the Springs on the Clutch Disc are unequal, or the above, either may send a Shockwave felt throughout the drivetrain when unequally loaded, or unequal Spring tensions unloading. They are intended to smooth the engagement, if incorrect- the opposite.
Was the Transmission gone through by anyone during this? Reason I ask is a possible Stackup errort exists, Input shaft could be protruding too much, be slightly bent, splines burred, the Pilot Bearing assembly, crushed. Airbound, too much or little Shim under the Exedy center Hydraulic driven actuator (Slave) for the throwout bearing, in which case the engagement may be violent, as the Springs are (Below). Car feel as it wants to “creep” in Neutral, while engine’s idling.?
If you haven’t already, look at Customer review’s on American Muscle, left by the purchasers of that Clutch, think you may also see a pattern (Usually not as much an issue with the purchase of the Exedy Flywheel). But the negativity & Not one person, many.
Copy & paste that to an Email address to a Sr. [email protected] Exedy. Tell them you want re-imbursement before it destroys your driveline, buy a Ford Racing Clutch/Flywheel & not be stressed each time you drive the Car. I wish you luck!
 

Exile918

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Oct 16, 2014
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Its probably worth mentioning that the pedal engagement and clutch feel is become less smooth also. I tried vacuum bleeding again to see if it would help and it didnt. My dad took a closer look and said that its the motor mounts making that noise but i honestly think that the noise is coming from inside the bellhousing i could be wrong. Im seriously fed up with this piece of :poo: car. We did everything according to spec and i just dont see why this fn thing wont ever have a proper clutch pedal and engagement feel.. There is nothing linear about this clutch and i dont know if i should just wait another 400 miles since these people are saying that all that will go away! Or just tare it all down or pay someone else. This is my daily driver to work and its just a hassle. How much different would a stock clutch be? Do u think its because its not the stock clutch?
 

08GT500

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Jul 12, 2018
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Lot’s of good Clutches out there, select by build or plans to build, they won’t all “feel” the same. OE is as gentle as they come. Exedy's Customer Service seems useless, pre-programmed for the “500 Mile break in period” comment. All that meant, originally is “take it easy on it for 500 mi”, now repurposed.
No rear main Seal or input Shaft Seal leaks before, or since. Very Lightly lubed the splines, no binding, oil or grease on the Disc, or Flywheel, Pressure plate during assembly-correct? Install went well when bringing Trans Bell to Motor, lined up level, didn’t become difficult & pulled the Bell in with Bolts?
Machine shop was reputable that Cut the Flywheel? If a Machining error occurred, it May be a rough engagement.
Surfaces Should be “Hospital clean”.
A thought..Ever test driven a late model, 5 or 6 speed performance Car & experienced Clutch engagement issues like you are? No. Clutches are not in infancy, built & improved upon for a long time.
I usually suggest a new Flywheel with a performance Clutch, since they became less expensive, or if Original is laden with discoloration once pulled, work hardening occurs, may still remain though flycut clean & flat with a Carbide or Diamond bit. Metallurgy issues with uneven wear results.
Rare, yet possible you received a defective Clutch, or may have had an issue occur during install, now not visible. Not the Car’s fault, not really anyone’s fault. Needs to function correctly & be forgotten about. I suggest you Take it by a reputable Transmission shop or two, don’t call- them, then you’re already a Customer. Show up. Likely be happy to render opinions, let them Drive it. One may spot it right off, or say it’s been observed with some, before & normal.
Use their feedback...make your decision.
How long did it take you to do the install, a day? All the Bolts are freshly installed, Tools used are known. You could swap out & in over less time, if need be. If a well known shop (or Shop’s) say there’s an issue, there likely is.
As for the anomalies because it’s not an OE part/Stock, different, Yes, ridiculously different, No. slightly more holding power. Need to know what’s occurring. Bottom line is, the difference is Mfg part specific design differences, Clutch is faulty, Flywheel machined improperly, or an unknown error occurred during install..
I’ve a Centerforce Clutch in my own 08’ GT, McLeod (W/Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel) 1,000Ft/Lb dual Disc in my 08’ GT500. There were no significant differences in engagement aside from strength. May grab different than OE. yet No overwhelming chatter, no “wham” in either at install, or since.
If it were me, was off to that degree, I’d pull it, find out why. If issues seem inherent with others that bought the same, i’d install a McLeod, Ram, or Centerforce.
Get some Shop opinions, & from Guy’s running them, someone on Stangnet May be & pipe in. I’ll ask my buddy who’s running his.. Good Luck!
 

Exile918

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Oct 16, 2014
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Greatly appreciate your feed back and input. Yes all surfaces were clean, i tried my best not to contaminate clutch flywheel n pressure plate. No rear main seal like of any. We struggled a bit mating the trans but we got it withing 1/4 of an inch and via bolts mating thr trans not sure if this was good or bad. My initial thought was he resurfacing of the flywheel.. Though maybe wasnt done properly. The shop that had it done took no longer than what u take to take a piss and was back in seconds it felt with the resurfaced flywheel.. It looked nice n clean who knows if it was uneven didnt pay attention. I wish u were in the area to drive the car and see what u think u clearly know the ins n outs as far as clutch job. I was happy with the intial pedal feel at first but over the last week of driving it it almost feels stiffer and alot notchier going into gear and shifting from 1st to second even 3 sometimes. The first couple of days it was butter smooth shifting but thr shudder and vibration has been there since day one. Like i said it would be smooth once im in gear.. Really bumbed about that. Im wondering whats going on. Ive made up my mind and ill just drive those miserable 500miles and see what changes. I called Exedy again and spoke with the same tech and he said just do that and if any problems after give him a call and see aboit getting a refund. I might just do it all over or just pay all that extra money to have it done. So whats the most linear clutch out there with a smooth pedal feel light and consistent that engages between bottom and half way pedal travel? What would anyone recomment. Ive been wanting to do gears intake tune and springs forever but i really want to sort this out first. Im probably the only guy with a stock mustang in the country. Bybthe way this car was originally an automatic that my dad and i made standard. Everything was done like factory for really cheap!
 

Potomus Pete

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For what its worth. I put a clutch in my fox. It is a McLeod. When I first started and drove away it made all kinds of noise... real bad strange sounds. And it shuddered pretty good. Not terrible. Now all the sounds went away. and it only shudders in reverse. Originally I thought I was going to have to re-do it all.Its not the price of the clutch anyway,,,,,,, Its the misery of the labor and all the small stuff you have to buy. My thing I regret was I bought a cheap===under one hundred dollar flywheel. Thats what is making my shudder im sure
 
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Exile918

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This morning the pedal felt a whole lot stiffer like the way it did before the install. Now Its notchy and shifting feels like crap i dont understand how the first two days since the install the pedal pressure felt light and smooth and shifted nicely. Now it just feels difderent in a bad way..
 

08GT500

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Jul 12, 2018
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This morning the pedal felt a whole lot stiffer like the way it did before the install. Now Its notchy and shifting feels like crap i dont understand how the first two days since the install the pedal pressure felt light and smooth and shifted nicely. Now it just feels difderent in a bad way..
At this point, unfortunately, I’m inclined to that you may be headed to the point where total failure may be a real possibility, taking in consideration the length of the thread & noting potentiation/addition of mechanical anomalies.
This is not a Textbook group of “break in” circumstances, the quick of it..once tear down occurs, you’ll locate the issue. Though Jaded, I’d suggest you do it yourself. You’ll be glad you did, trust that.
This may suck right now, but you’ve learned a great deal, once you get through it, learn what’s occurring, you’re insight to reach out to another in a similar position will be priceless.
Still Strongly suggest seeking out a well known, highly regarded local Transmission Shop’s opinion. Won’t cost you anything. I’d be very happy to help locate the anomaly, since that’s not feasible, a Local opinion or 2 won’t hurt. Then decide what you want to do. Waiting it out seems counterproductive to me, if it’s worsening. I have a 1 Dimensional image, based on input. I see potential Flywheel uncertainty, Pilot Bearing damage, Slave issue, etc.
Exedy does make some good products, I believe, IMO, McLeod is superior, RAM’s Powergrip, Ford Racing, Centerforce, Some Spec Clutches, you’re future build target looks 350 HP (Net) Max, you really don’t need too much above stock.
As no Clutch Mfg. can control every possible aspect that may cause issues, it’s proven minor irregular install issues may clear over time, if a severe problem should occur, tear down likely will not reveal a Mfg. issue with their product, it’ll be an install issue, or other system component failure/inadequacy. It’s as controlled an environment as they can create.
Clutches should be near zero chatter post install, rest clearing typically within a few days. I trust you know that it may be something as innocent as running an *incompatible Synthetic Hydraulic Fluid, Pedal assembly wear issue, the most positively of trusted Component’s installed, go often overlooked when troubleshooting & often turn up later as the culprit.
May I confirm you’re running a TR3650 manual 10-spline transmission, when converting from an Automatic?
I’d recommend, if it were me replacing the Clutch, though $$, I’d suggest a McLeod Street Pro, (Same .Org.material Disc as OE) and their new Steel Flywheel, New Hydraulic Throwout Bearing (McLeod’s). Their Bolts, Fluid recommendation.
Good Luck! John
 

Exile918

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Oct 16, 2014
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Yes tr3650. I taking it in monday for a second opinion and hoping exedy could atleast refund me the clutch kit. If it was a mistake we did ill have to own it and just buy a new kit but for now specially after the drive i had a couple hrs ago theres something terribly wrong to say the least. I hate that im thinking about all the what ifs. What if its the clutch master cylinder which i replaced a year ago.. Or what if its the flywheel or like u said pilot bearing or who knows. Sucks ill have to do it all over
 

08GT500

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Don’t sell yourself short, Bro. Sounds like you & your Dad planned out a well executed Clutch job, didn’t cut corners, bought well branded parts, had the Flywheel resurfaced, did the install, reached out for opinions when you suspected an issue.
I see no error in the above. You’ll move on & locate the anomaly, do a “Seriously?!”, repair it & be cruising around in a Week. Easier said than done, but the truth.
Exedy & a refund hinges on cause, more likely offer Credit towards their products to submerge the offset.
When all said & done, you mentioned “build”. Gears, best bang per buck. Tuner, CAI, a reasonable start. Tuner, will correct Speedo offset from running lower Gears. Bama’s Tunes for life creates new Tunes for every upgrade you ever do, long as you own it.
Careful of component selection if you’re area has stiff Inspection guidelines. If not, & financially sensible, go loopy with Longtube Headers, the 4.6’s sound sweet with them & H pipe/X Pipe Exhaust. Certainly be interested to hear what the Clutch anomaly turns out to be..give 2 C’s. on Mod’s later.
Best of luck!!
A peek at what many do, well worth it!
https://www.americanmuscle.com/airaid-race-cai-x4tuner-0509gt.html
 

Potomus Pete

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Does it make sense to work that clutch. Almost like clutching to go up a steep driveway. Not burning it up but useing a blending process to get the organic part worn to fit better...... I would also tell them that your job is being documented on Stangnet....How many people see this. Although when I was looking for clutch ideas I found more than enough reviews similar to your story. I have McLeod Street level and its awsome.
 
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Exile918

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Your right about that potomus pete not about the price of the materials but the work. If infact these issues are because of the clutch kit il be looking into something other than exedy. Mcleod is more expensive but ive seen good reviews and im definately considering a Mcleod or jist plain stock and maybe even ford oem slave.. Im looking forward to mods but even more fixing this issue..tomorrow ill have a trans shop look over it and Ill report back with any findings and hopefully i can put an end to this car drama! Much respect to you fellas!
 
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08GT500

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Lots of comments of similar negative Clutch experiences, indeed! Your concept is a good thought, over a 1-1/2 years after a similar thought in 93’ i’d completed development of a device that Mechanically breaks-in full Clutch Assy’s, pre-install.
The drawback(s) Inherent in attempting a more aggressive break-in attempt, Clutch in vehicle, being the inability to monitor Temperature & wear rate, control rapid particulate buildup, etc. Clutch Disc glazing occurs.Pressure Plate Hot spots (Work hardening) causes uneven wear. Once a Clutch Disc Glazes, it isn’t more useful than a paperweight (possibly a bizarre Gearhead Discus throw Competition). Hmm!
Brilliant thought in regards to the Documentation on Stangnet, is an exacting Chronological group of events as occurred, how correctly the install was. Could assist Exile918 in monetary recovery aspects, if required.
 

Rusty67

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Did you ever rule out the motor mounts? It IS possible that they can cause that issue if they are indeed bad. It is usually a BS line being sold to a customer when a clutch install is done wrong but the trans/motor mounts being bad CAN cause excessive chatter. Although the pedal feel shouldn't change and it sounds like that is the case here so I don't think the mounts are the culprit here.
 

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