New Engine Help- Shuts off shortly after startup

[toyman]

It looks like the edge was flashed out on your pic. I'm not using the half circle you mention, I see that in your pic too. I'm using the pointing edge, it actually says 'TIME' engraved on it. When I aimed the light at it today, I could see my drawn timing mark about 1in below it, closer to your half circle. Remember, my timing mark is drawn at exactly 0* and not 10* where I set my base time.

I know I'll figure this out eventually!

The HB should have timing marks and numbers etched into the surface. If it's rusty get some emery paper and polish the surface. That way you won't have to guess where the timing is relative to the 0 you marked on the balancer. If the balancer is old it may have slipped on the rubber between the hub and out ring. If that has happened the timing marks have no value and the HB must be replaced. That could also explain the rough idle.

 

[99FiveOh]

Also, make sure your putting the timing light lead on #1 plug wire. If you put it on another wire it will show you timing marks being far away from the pointer.

Where do you live? I'm sure if a member lives close they'll come help you out.

 

[redsn95gt]

The HB should have timing marks and numbers etched into the surface.

Yea, I can see the etched numbers on the HB. I drew my timing mark on the HB in white out... I get the feeling this is wrong now.

If the balancer is old it may have slipped on the rubber between the hub and out ring. If that has happened the timing marks have no value and the HB must be replaced. That could also explain the rough idle.

Ok- this is new to me. Rubber between the hub and out ring? It is a stock HB, so its pretty old. Worked previously before I did the rebuild though.

Also, make sure your putting the timing light lead on #1 plug wire. If you put it on another wire it will show you timing marks being far away from the pointer.

Where do you live? I'm sure if a member lives close they'll come help you out.

Made sure I have the timing light lead on #1 plug, followed it from plug to dizzy to be sure.

I live in Apopka FL, which is the NW side of Orlando

Thanks guys! Your help is appreciated.

 

[99FiveOh]

I make deliveries to Orlando every week, if you don't have if figured out by next week I'll stop in and take a look if you'd like.

 

[toyman]

Yea, I can see the etched numbers on the HB. I drew my timing mark on the HB in white out... I get the feeling this is wrong now.

Find the 10* spot and mark it (see below).

Ok- this is new to me. Rubber between the hub and out ring? It is a stock HB, so its pretty old. Worked previously before I did the rebuild though.

Well, you weren't playing with the timing before and you may have attributed any vibration to something else. The stock HB do not have a long life. I can't believe you would do a rebuild and not replace the HB. I would recommend a SFI approved unit something like this one that I use.

 

[toyman]

Yea, I can see the etched numbers on the HB. I drew my timing mark on the HB in white out... I get the feeling this is wrong now.

Find the 10* spot and mark it (see below).

Ok- this is new to me. Rubber between the hub and out ring? It is a stock HB, so its pretty old. Worked previously before I did the rebuild though.

Well, you weren't playing with the timing before and you may have attributed any vibration to something else. The stock HB do not have a long life. I can't believe you would do a rebuild and not replace the HB. I would recommend a SFI approved unit something like this one that I use.

 

[redsn95gt]

Thanks The_Mustang, thats real nice of you to offer your help. I work at home so I'm here all the time.

toyman - I think I will be picking up a new SFI approved balancer. I have to change the water pump anyway so I can do all that in one afternoon. I will get a better timing pointer as well. I'll post up what I end up getting.

EDIT - Just to make double sure- I am looking for 50oz externally balanced correct? The internally balanced units don't have the same shape as my stock one but the externals do.

 

[toyman]

I believe you want the externally balanced one. The internally balanced one is for an internally balanced engine.

 

[Jamee]

are you 100% sure there's no vacuum leaks? I had very similar symptoms with them

 

[lietuvis91]

My car sounds exactly like yours and I have new heads, cam and intake. Mine does the same thing too, runs for a while and dies on it's own. I don't have a tune on it yet. But I will be getting back to working on it next weekend. I also suspect that I have a vacuum leak somehwere, just not sure yet.

So far the things that had made my car run better were:
Adjusting timing - you did that
Fresh fuel - I had stale 1 year old fuel in the tank, and that can make a car run like crap.
Car running lean - until i hokked up the wideband sensor i had no idea my car idled in the 17-18 af range. This is actually dangerous and NOT healthy for the motor.
Finally, I suspect I still may have a vacuum leak somehwere, will be checking that this coming weekend.

 

[redsn95gt]

My car sounds exactly like yours and I have new heads, cam and intake. Mine does the same thing too, runs for a while and dies on it's own. I don't have a tune on it yet. But I will be getting back to working on it next weekend. I also suspect that I have a vacuum leak somehwere, just not sure yet.

So far the things that had made my car run better were:
Adjusting timing - you did that
Fresh fuel - I had stale 1 year old fuel in the tank, and that can make a car run like crap.
Car running lean - until i hokked up the wideband sensor i had no idea my car idled in the 17-18 af range. This is actually dangerous and NOT healthy for the motor.
Finally, I suspect I still may have a vacuum leak somehwere, will be checking that this coming weekend.

Thanks for these ideas! I have a NGK AFX wideband unit sitting in the box, the bung is already welded in, haven't even hooked it up, I will definitely give that a try. Vac leaks- very likely! I do not have a smog pump or EGR anymore, I just kinda plugged the lines for now to get things going but I didn't think to go back and check that stuff. I will probably pull the fender and just plug the main line going to the solenoids since I don't use any of them now. Also have 2 FPRs I can swap the stock for, a Kirbin and an Aeromotive, I'll be doing that as well when I put on the wideband.

Kinda tight on funds at the moment, lots of expenses this month so I'll be doing all this before I order the new balancer. I'll definitely be getting one but its gonna have to wait a couple weeks I think.

 

[redsn95gt]

I hooked up the NGK AFX meeter this weekend, let it calibrate in open air for about an hour, then plugged it in and started it up to get a reading.

At idle, it always shows 16.00 (which I read is just pure air..hmm that cant be), when I give it some gas, it drops down as low as 13.74, a full point from 14.74. I did not install the FPR yet, I wanted to get some feedback.

I removed the vacuum solenoid assembly behind the passenger fender as it was not even being used, I have no smog pump or EGR anymore, so it was useless. Tested it with it disconnected and got same results so I know I can run the car without it. I still don't have a vac gauge to test the pressure, but I will pick one up this week. What is the standard pressure I should see?

I'm expecting if anywhere my lower manifold to be the place to have a leak. The systemax intake on the back of it had a decent size gap to close to the block, I used a ton of RTV to build a thick gasket but I had my doubts.

Also, I could have bad vac pressure due to a universal T fitting on one of the lines reducing pressure. (Or maybe my setup is just plain wrong) I have a vac line out of the side port on the intake elbow with a T junction, one line to the purge solenoid, and the other going to the FPR. Then on the intake manifold neck I have one line running directly to the PCV valve, and on the other side my main vac line going to the tree.

 

[redsn95gt]

I picked up a vac gauge tester tool today from harbor freight for $15 bucks (mainly because the store just opened about 200ft from my house, could i ask for more??)

I did a tap onto the vac line from the FPR going into the elbow, the meter was in the red at below 30psi, which directly said "late valve timing or leak at intake manifold". Well, thats exactly what I was expecting. I am pretty sure I'm leaking, now how the hell do i figure out from where? Its going to suck to pull the lower intake off to fix this =(

 

[redsn95gt]

New video of my problem. I see to be getting nowhere on this car. The frustration is really starting to set in, I'm almost to the point where I just want to part it out and sell everything.

This weekend I pulled off the lower manifold and re-sealed it with RTV, used new gaskets, just to be sure I am not getting a vac leak there. Also did a RTV seal on my EGR block off. Changed some of my VAC hoses, down to only 1 T fitting. Put on my Kirbin FPR and fuel gauge, set pressure to 40psi without vac. Car is the same after, idles really rough, seems to get steady around 3300 rpm, but under that, its just shaking all over.

Base time on this video set at 10* BTDC, dizzy at #1 plug, spout connector OUT so I can hit it with a timing gun, got about 40ish psi on my fuel pressure. Getting 15psi on my VAC gauge, needs to be 30+, but then again, it can't even idle to register.

YouTube - ‪Rebuilt 95 Mustang GT Can't Idle - Timing Problem?‬‏

 

[99FiveOh]

16 psi is what my cars have always ran at. Your fuel pressure looks good.

From your latest video it sounds like your IAC is malfunctioning or the little bleeder valve on the throttle body is out of wack. Basically, it sounds like the motor is choking itself off.

 

[redsn95gt]

I think I finally got this problem handled. It was a combination of base time, dizzy position, TB air screw position and fuel pressure. Once I got those to all come in balance, I was able to idle the car without the spout connector, then finally hit it with the timing gun. Its idling better, maybe not smooth, but this is about what I would ever expect with this cam on the base tune. I can move on now at least and get to a few other things, then get the Quarterhorse ordered!

Thanks so much for everyone who helped me with suggestions and ideas, I couldn't have done it without you guys!

Ryan

 

[Jamee]

I think I finally got this problem handled. It was a combination of base time, dizzy position, TB air screw position and fuel pressure. Once I got those to all come in balance, I was able to idle the car without the spout connector, then finally hit it with the timing gun. Its idling better, maybe not smooth, but this is about what I would ever expect with this cam on the base tune. I can move on now at least and get to a few other things, then get the Quarterhorse ordered!

Thanks so much for everyone who helped me with suggestions and ideas, I couldn't have done it without you guys!

Ryan

Good to hear!
I have the quarterhorse also, I like it. Had a custom tune made for it and the mustang runs really good. Good luck!