New engine time 00GT , whats the best solution

Mirrahasmycar · Aug 19, 2011

Hey guys,

my 00 stang has unfortionatley developed a terminal rod knock (n/a, under 60k! miles) its time for a new motor, There are alot of choices, what are your suggestions for a new/used motor swap? 4.6/281 SOHC or change it up? I'm looking for the best bang for my buck, I'm thinking I will replace the motor thats in there and then use the old one as a project engine, I haven't built an engine before, but I have taken several engines appart, would it be worth building an engine or having one built?

I want to consider future projects like turbo(s) but also get the stang back on the road in a reasonable amount of time

I greatly appreciate your help!

joshjwc9 · Aug 19, 2011

Cheap way=find a good PI truck motor/Crown Vic motor/Mustang motor and swap your accessories/needed parts over to get your car on the road.

Then you can rip the old one apart and buy yourself a forged crank, rotating assembly and get some headwork done, do cams and maybe an aftermarket intake manifold. Just keep the compression ratio lower if your going turbo/Roots blower.

If you've ripped an engine apart before, you can reassemble it yourself. You'd just have to become friends with a machine shop to get everything cleaned up. You'd also need a few tools that the average weekender doesn't probably have. Just get a good guide and follow everything to a T.

Jhunter · Aug 19, 2011

I'd see about putting one of the new 5.0 crate engines from ford racing. Say it already 412hp out of the box.

Mirrahasmycar · Aug 22, 2011

I do have most of the tools needed and if not I have some friends I can borrow them from,

what about getting a short block with forged internals like this:

4.6 Base Modular

and reusing parts off the old motor to complete it?

I found a bullet engine with 62k, is it worth making an offer and if so what do you think would be a good price?

Winters98GT · Aug 22, 2011

joshjwc9 said:
Cheap way=find a good PI truck motor/Crown Vic motor/Mustang motor and swap your accessories/needed parts over to get your car on the road.

Then you can rip the old one apart and buy yourself a forged crank, rotating assembly and get some headwork done, do cams and maybe an aftermarket intake manifold. Just keep the compression ratio lower if your going turbo/Roots blower.

If you've ripped an engine apart before, you can reassemble it yourself. You'd just have to become friends with a machine shop to get everything cleaned up. You'd also need a few tools that the average weekender doesn't probably have. Just get a good guide and follow everything to a T.

+1. Spot on, IMO.

Get a used PI motor for not a whole lot. I did my first PI swap in 2001 from here, and bought a couple 4.6 motors for my 3 mustangs without issue.

www.car-part.com

Get the car running, if you need to for a DD or other soon. Build your stock block with forged internals with good parts. I'm not experienced enough to build an engine, so you might want to have a reputable machine shop do it, especially if you want to run a lot of HP. Plan the build out and take your time.

joshjwc9 · Aug 22, 2011

Mirrahasmycar said:
I do have most of the tools needed and if not I have some friends I can borrow them from,

what about getting a short block with forged internals like this:

4.6 Base Modular

and reusing parts off the old motor to complete it?

I found a bullet engine with 62k, is it worth making an offer and if so what do you think would be a good price?

I'm not a fan of DSS, but lots of people have had success. I really like MMR and Modmax myself. I would probably just buy a rotating assembly then piece it together using my stock block. But I want to keep my Windsor block so I wouldn't have to change brackets for my Vortech.

LastCallRacing · Aug 22, 2011

You can use the stock block and do a rotating assembly or you can use the iron 03/04 Cobra block and still use your existing front timing cover. The bracketry for the Vortech bolts up to the front timing cover. We are dealers for MMR, so give us a call if you would like any information about some shortblocks.

billfisher · Aug 22, 2011

get a used teksid or 05+3v and forge it. use the 3v heads and build it from there.

billfisher · Aug 22, 2011

LastCallRacing said:
You can use the stock block and do a rotating assembly or you can use the iron 03/04 Cobra block and still use your existing front timing cover. The bracketry for the Vortech bolts up to the front timing cover. We are dealers for MMR, so give us a call if you would like any information about some shortblocks.

the cobra iron block IS a the block you have. mustang gt and cobra use the same block. iron 2 bolt mains with cross bolts.

Mirrahasmycar · Aug 23, 2011

Thanks Again for all the great responses,

I found a few used 4.6 engines that I'm looking at, not sure what to offer, what is a reasonable price for a used 4.6L 2v sohc stang engine with ~60k miles? (should I look for lower mileage?)

I'm thinking used engine to get back on the road, then shortblock project engine for the future

N8Dogg98 · Aug 23, 2011

I wouldn't pay more than $500 for a used 2V engine. The scrap yards may charge more for Mustang engines, but I'd expand the search to include the Explorer, Crown Vic, Town Car, and Grand Marquis.

Also, if you find a used Explorer engine it's aluminum and will save you about 70 lbs. IIRC the front cover and upper plenum is different on the explorer so you could just swap over the stuff from your current engine to get it to work.

Mirrahasmycar · Aug 24, 2011

Hey guys,

it seems pretty easy to find a replacement from another type of car as listed above, a buddy told me that it will be a pita to swap because everything has to be swapped over and I'll need a bunch of new gaskets and such that will end up costing alot of money, and also that they only made the engine for the 00 for 1 year and I need a 00 engine to be able to use any of the parts, I've never heard that before, Is there any truth to that?

I found a nearly new grand marquis engine for the right price, obviously there are some differences like the intake but, what will I have to swap to make it work? is there really that much difference making it hard to swap?

Thanks Again!

Mirrahasmycar · Aug 24, 2011

I tried the local ford dealership to see if they could give me any info and the parts guy said it won't work, I have a hard time believing them though cus I wouldn't consider them experts on any level. I don't even think he knew what I was talking about! I've seen a bunch of articles on engine swaps in 5.0 and muscle mustangs, they do 3.8 to 5.0, 4.6 to 5.4 like its nothing;

can I get a 4.6 sohc motor from another ford/lincoln/mercury vehicle without a headache?

the one I found that seems like the best deal lately is a 2005 merc grand marquis 4.6v8, any chance it will work?

joshjwc9 · Aug 24, 2011

If it is a complete engine you only need to adapt your top end and your flywheel/clutch. Your vehicle with the Windsor motor has a 8 bolt crankshaft and applicable flywheel if its a MT. You will need to get a 6 bolt flywheel and clutch then.

That's it, bolt on your plenum and CAI, then install new clutch and flywheel and your good!

Look at 01-04 Crown Vics, Grand Marks, or F150's. Same with I think 02-05 Explorers, the Explorers are the best for this simple engine replacement, cuz of their lighter blocks and weight savings but all will work and are PI like your Windsor now.

Mirrahasmycar · Aug 24, 2011

don't the 2k5 romeos have pi heads? the aluminum block sounds good to me, they aren't as easy to find though...

any recomendations on flywheel and clutch...

wmburns · Aug 24, 2011

The problem I have with this thread (and those like it), is that the OP hasn’t really bothered to articulate their goals and resources.

Without real world constraints, look at some of the suggestions. Ford racing 5.0 crate motor. Forged DSS race ready beasts. MMR, Cobra, Terminator, Aluminator, tubo-Stang Yada yada yada.

When the real world of $$ kicks in, things turn to a salvage motor swap.

Don’t get me wrong race motors are great. So are salvage motors. What I’m soap boxing about is the lack of a real plan.

How do you intend on using the car (DD, strip, road course)?
How much HP do you intend to make? Be honest here.
How do you want to do it (NA or FI)?
How much of the work do you want to do yourself?
What is your budget?

How is it possible for someone to recommend the “best bang for the buck” when they don’t know what the buck is? For that matter, we don’t know what the "bang" is. Yea I know everyone wants the most they can have but is that really the way to go about it?

If this car is a DD that’s not raced and money is tight, it’s going to be very tough to beat a low mileage salvage yard motor.

In previous post, you were asking how much to offer.

I used car-part.com and called around. The project motor settled upon came from a 2004 Crown Vic with 35K miles. Cost $800. For that I got a complete Romeo PI motor oil pan to induction (minus front accessories).

Note, my project plan was to build a daily driver on a low budget. Street manners were near the top of the list. Having this information helped set the stage for everything that followed.

To the OP, this is your project not someone else’s. Take the time to articulate your goals. More importantly, take time to access the available resources. Examples of resources are money, time, tools, and skill. Do your homework. The pay off will come at the end with a successful project.

<jumps off soap box>

Rick 91GT · Aug 24, 2011

Great response...

That question is one of the first things I ask all my customers.

Mirrahasmycar · Aug 25, 2011

Good point,

I've had my stang for over 10 yrs, I've done alot of work on it but no motor swaps or anything, haven't had the funds yet, unfortionatley I had the spark plug thread problem on 2 cylinders, one at about 52k and the other at 57k miles, it was running pretty good up until the rod knock, I take good care of it, people think its brand new when they see it.

-I have a POS import DD now, the stang is a DD when its nice out, weekend stripper and autocrosser, and one time show car (1st place), never winter driven
-I would be fine with what I had for HP (which was slightly over stock) and be back on the road, eventually I want to make power in the 400-500hp range, I want fast but I want it to be street legal enough that I can still drive it on the road and use pump gas.
-eventually FI (turbo), NA until then
-I want to do as much as I can myself, I'm an engineer, I have most tools in my garage and I can borrow what I don't have, I've worked on everything from dirtbikes to cars to big excavators growing up,
-I have only been able to find part time employment in this economy so the budget is tight,

I'm leaning most towards the romeo swap right now, they seem to be plentiful and I can get one for the right price.

wmburns, what did you go with for clutch and 6 bolt flywheel on your swap? what do you suggest?

joshjwc9 · Aug 25, 2011

Start simple, either find a stock 6 bolt flywheel for cheap and have it turned, then grab a 03/04 Clutch kit if it is a 11 inch flywheel or a RAM HDX if its a 10.5 in flywheel.

wmburns · Aug 25, 2011

Mirrahasmycar said:
wmburns, what did you go with for clutch and 6 bolt flywheel on your swap? what do you suggest?

I went to a salvage yard and got a flywheel from a 2001+ Mustang. I had the flywheel resurfaced at a local machine shop.

I bought a new stock quality 11" LUK clutch online.

Carolina Clutch and Performance, Inc.: Performance Clutches &amp Flywheels

Remember my goal was a DD. As such, I didn't need/want a fancy clutch. Besides, the 11" clutch was an upgrade over the stock 10.5". For the 1.5 yrs the car has been together, I have been VERY happy with the feel of the clutch.

Lesson learned. I didn't realize how much more expensive a stock 11" clutch is over a 10.5". The next lesson was how $$ can add up. The cost of the flywheel plus resurfacing was close to the cost of a new Ford Racing products flywheel. The FRP flywheel supports both 10.5" and 11" clutches.

While the used flywheel was cheaper than new, I didn't save as much $$ as I would have liked.

Since you asked for recommendations, here are some of mine. Allow money in your budget for things such as:

New motor mounts
new gaskets
new O2 sensors
Have the fuel injectors cleaned. Consider an injector cleaning/flow test service such as injectorrx.com
new O-rings for the heater return line.

There will never be an easier time to work on the new motor than when it's on the engine stand. Spend the $$ on the things that will make it a success today.

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