New guy with 289 questions

[craziejoker]

Hello, new here, been reading for a while though. I have yet to get the project car, but do have block to start playing with. I have a '67 or '68 mercury 289 block my grandfather had squirreled away that I want to use as the heart to my beast.
I know all about the stroked 302 and what not. Is there anything I can do to the 289? I really want to use this block. Everything else my grandfather left I either sold(by request of my grandmother) or wrecked (thank you Michigan winters). I am not looking to take it to the strip, but right around 450 hp would be what I am shooting for.
Is that even possible, I am mechanically inclined, so I will be doing as much as I can to cut costs.
I will need heads, rotating assy, pistons and rods.
Also, I run a salvage yard, so if there are any intakes or heads I should look for, I can probably find.
Thanks in advance

 

[2+2GT]

I have a '67 or '68 mercury 289 block my grandfather had squirreled away that I want to use as the heart to my beast.
If the cylinders are OK, that's all good.

I know all about the stroked 302 and what not. Is there anything I can do to the 289? I really want to use this block.
So what's the problem? A 302 was a stroked 289. Anything that upgrades a 302 works just the same on a 289.

Everything else my grandfather left I either sold(by request of my grandmother) or wrecked (thank you Michigan winters). I am not looking to take it to the strip, but right around 450 hp would be what I am shooting for.
Is that even possible, I am mechanically inclined, so I will be doing as much as I can to cut costs.
With a 289 or 302, 350 hp would be a much more realistic goal.

I will need heads, rotating assy, pistons and rods.
So this is a bare block? Just buy parts for a 302.

Also, I run a salvage yard, so if there are any intakes or heads I should look for, I can probably find.
The GT40 heads from a later-model 5.0 would be your most likely choice, 1988 or later.

 

[jlangholzj]

Everything else my grandfather left I either sold(by request of my grandmother) or wrecked (thank you Michigan winters). I am not looking to take it to the strip, but right around 450 hp would be what I am shooting for.
Is that even possible, I am mechanically inclined, so I will be doing as much as I can to cut costs.
With a 289 or 302, 350 hp would be a much more realistic goal.

although doable there's LOTS needed to reach a 450 goal. Talking alum heads, some good rotating assembly work and forced induction.

as stated, 350 is reasonable. Besides, put 350 and some 4.11's and it should run a pretty respectable time if you can keep traction. Not gonna win awards but it will certainly get up and move

 

[rbohm]

as indicated, unless you are going to build one radical normally aspirated 289, or use forced induction, 450hp is rather out of the question. 300-350hp however is quite doable with a 289 or 302, and will make for a nice cruiser that will spend a little time at the track. keep it a 289, and you will will actually get slightly better fuel economy as well.

 

[robbz28]

I agree with the others that 450 is a tall order for a 289, stroked or not. Do-able yes, but its street manners would suck for the most part. If you are starting from scratch anyway you might want to consider finding a 351 block and maybe stroking it to a 408....you would have the same money in it as a stroked 289 but have the 450 horsepower capacity without running the compression through the roof. Remember with that horsepower you will need a big radiator to cool it and a good rear end to put the power to the road without breaking. Anyway, you can make a great running 289 as mentioned above.

 

[2+2GT]

350 hp in a Mustang is scary fast, you'd need to pay attention, especially when driving in the rain. Not the sort of car you'd loan to a teenager.

It's one thing to want a lotta power, it's another to actually have it. At the end of "200 Miles Per Hour", Bill Cosby gives back the custom Cobra Shelby built for him. In reality, he actually did give it back, because it scared him. Shelby re-sold the car, and that owner did die in it.

 

[zigmont]

I say scrap the 289 and buy a 302 roller motor from the junk yard or even eBay and start from there. You get a stronger block, and roller lifters so you don't have to deal with adding Zinc to the oil like you have to do for flat tappet cams. The following link will take you to eBay for a turn key engine that you probably can buy for $3700.00 with 352 HP. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[jlangholzj]

You get a stronger block, and roller lifters so you don't have to deal with adding Zinc to the oil like you have to do for flat tappet cams.

first off if you're having to worry about the 289/302 being a "stronger block" you're doin something wrong. secondly you don't HAVE to add zinc and you can just run diesel grade oil if you're that worried about it.

 

[robbz28]

Buyer beware when ordering engines off of Ebay....I have had 50-50 luck with engine/transmission stuff off of ebay. And about the flat tappet, I have never run zinc and never had a problem.
If you take your 289, put some good high flow heads (170-180cc), a nice 285 dur, 510-520 lift cam, flat top 10:1 pistons in it, headers, port matched intake,650 carburetor, proper ignition system.....you will have a hot small block probably in the 350 horespower range that will drive good on the street, have a nice mean sound to it, and if you get the right transmission/rear end combo behind it, will be a stout pony for sure.
Unless you are going to be driving around with racing slicks on your car, any power over that will be overkill anyway, but I can understand the NEED to have overkill =D

 

[craziejoker]

Wow, thanx for all the replies!
That is why I wanted to ask about the 450 hp. I wasnt sure what was capable. I will build a streetable 289, then turbo it.
as far as traction goes, I should be able to get around that also.
Because,
the car the motor goes in might just be an '05 mustang. I know that sounds wierd, but hey, how many do you see?
So the GT40 heads would work to get 350 hp? I think I should be able to come up with those relatively easy.
If you havent noticed, I kinda dont like the norm. Just me I guess, but work with what ya got, I think grandpa would approve.

 

[robbz28]

Airflow is what builds horespower, the easier air can get in and out of that engine the more power you are going to make. If you plan on putting a turbo on that engine you had better go ahead and spend the money on some 180cc AFR's or something similar, because it will make waaaay better use of the air you will be cramming into the cylinder. You are at a point where 1000 bucks can make a HUGE difference...and you can either find a used set of GT40 heads, have them magnafluxed and inspected and on your car for a couple hundred bucks, or put that money towards a set of higher flowing heads. Just my 2 cents.

 

[zigmont]

first off if you're having to worry about the 289/302 being a "stronger block" you're doin something wrong. secondly you don't HAVE to add zinc and you can just run diesel grade oil if you're that worried about it.

You need to wake up. If you are running a flat tappet camshaft, and are not worried about it, you are facing eventual camshaft failure unless you keep your zinc levels above 1000 ppm. Some time ago the Fed (EPA) passed legislation decreeing that catalytic converters had to last 100,000 miles. The only way to do this was to eliminate around 30% of the Zinc from automobile engine oil (from 1200 ppm to around 800 ppm). Zinc levels are being lowered in diesel oil as well since diesels are migrating to catalic converters which zinc will clog up.
I also said the 302 was a stronger block then a 289, not that you need a stronger block then both of them.

 

[jlangholzj]

Airflow is what builds horespower, the easier air can get in and out of that engine the more power you are going to make. If you plan on putting a turbo on that engine you had better go ahead and spend the money on some 180cc AFR's or something similar, because it will make waaaay better use of the air you will be cramming into the cylinder. You are at a point where 1000 bucks can make a HUGE difference...and you can either find a used set of GT40 heads, have them magnafluxed and inspected and on your car for a couple hundred bucks, or put that money towards a set of higher flowing heads. Just my 2 cents.

so then the real debate for the OP comes down to time and money. If you put some AFR's on it like stated, you'll have a nice little pony. But if you KNOW for SURE that you're going to turbo the car, just get some larger heads, pistons and probably better internals while you're at it. If you're going to be pushing some good boost into the motor you're compression for pistons will have to be adjusted along with a whole lot of other good stuff. you've got three option here:

1)You'd be able to build one that would run semi-well with-out the turbo that would accept and respond quite well to moderate boost later

2)build a stout pony that is a very responsive N/A car as is, and if you decide to go forced later, chances are you'll end up tearing it apart again

3)build the turbo motor up right away

i guess have you ever ridden in a classic mustang that has 350 hp before?? you might surprise yourself.

 

[rbohm]

Wow, thanx for all the replies!
That is why I wanted to ask about the 450 hp. I wasnt sure what was capable. I will build a streetable 289, then turbo it.
as far as traction goes, I should be able to get around that also.
Because,
the car the motor goes in might just be an '05 mustang. I know that sounds wierd, but hey, how many do you see?
So the GT40 heads would work to get 350 hp? I think I should be able to come up with those relatively easy.
If you havent noticed, I kinda dont like the norm. Just me I guess, but work with what ya got, I think grandpa would approve.

if you are going to put a turbo on the engine, then be sure to build the engine for the turbo set up. that means you want to get the compression ratio down to around 8:1, you want good flowing heads, you want a cam that will complement a forced induction system, you want forged pistons and strong bottom end. you also want to limit the boost you will build if this is going to be a street motor to about 10psi max.

You need to wake up. If you are running a flat tappet camshaft, and are not worried about it, you are facing eventual camshaft failure unless you keep your zinc levels above 1000 ppm. Some time ago the Fed (EPA) passed legislation decreeing that catalytic converters had to last 100,000 miles. The only way to do this was to eliminate around 30% of the Zinc from automobile engine oil (from 1200 ppm to around 800 ppm). Zinc levels are being lowered in diesel oil as well since diesels are migrating to catalic converters which zinc will clog up.
I also said the 302 was a stronger block then a 289, not that you need a stronger block then both of them.

i have a few issues with this post;

1: even running a flat tappet cam, you dont need 1000ppm zddp all the time, only during cam break in.

2: if you feel you need to run more zddp than the oil producers want to put in, you can run either diesel rated oil or race oil.

3: if you want to run off the shelf oil, but want more zddp, then you can use an additive at each oil change, like stp for instance.

4: unless you are talking about a boss 302 block, there is NO difference in strength between a 289 and a 302 block.

 

[craziejoker]

Ok, I know I want to turbo it. It may be overkill, but hey, I have been wanting to do this for 10 yrs. Wretched excess is the best excess.

I still dont know what car it is going into, I will worry about it later.
I posted on classic tech cuz I knew you guys would have the knowledge on the 289.

I am using this block. I know it might be easier to buy a roller cam 302 and what not, but I dont care, and I dont have the funds. Besides, I want to build it. I have built harley engines, if I can do that, I should be able to do this.

Since I am turboing it, I know I will have to have low compression from the get go. I only want to do this once. That is till I blow it up racing my brother's car.

Thank you so much for the input

 

[jlangholzj]

there's a few other guys around here that have turbo'd SBF's int he cars. there's some decent turbo knowledge from the old guys....er i mean....the boys around here


look at hittin 8:1 if you're pushin 10-15 lbs of boost, like rbohm said, 10lbs is a good ceiling for a street-able car. I don't know much on the heads, I'm guessing something in the 210+ range for intake is going to be needed and yes, at a minimum get hyper-U internals. I-beam rods or H's if you can and good crank. Guys have had scatt cranks blow up, others have had em last forever. IIRC there's some head sets out there that are specific for turbo sets but make sure you've got adequate spring pressure...etc etc..

I don't blame you for wanting to do a turbo. I've always wanted to turn my 289 into a 331 stroker with some moderate boost its a great way to make lots of power cheaply.


also, have you ever considered running a centrifugal supercharger? Takes a little bit of work getting the right brackets but they will fit comfortably into a car, especially if you're staying with a SBF. Just another option

 

[rbohm]

one more bit of advice, since you are set on building a turbo motor, and knowing that the average guy here is like tim the "tool man" taylor(arrhh arrrhh arrrhhh), add one of these to your build;

Main Cap Girdles - Engines & Components - SummitRacing.com

it wont let the block hold a lot more power, but it will help keep all the pieces together when the block does split because you decided to run 20psi boost pressure.