New Heads

[old_blue]

Went to look at a 95 GT today that the motor had a bent rod. He didn't list the heads with the sale but had GT 40 aluminums on it. Has 1.7 cobra rockers and are complete ready to bolt on. Had them off the motor already so he made me a deal on the heads. Only concern I have is the possibility of the valves on that cylinder also being bent so they will need a trip ot the machine shop to be gone through. By looking at the valves it appears water got into the combustion chamber and caused a type of hydro lock. Probably best to take them to a machine shop but I want to throw them on the car. Hopefully nothing is wrong with them. Might just take the valves on that cylinder out and see if they are true.

Other plans are a Tmoss lower and possible a TFS1 cam. I still need to install the MAF conversion I have sitting in there. These will also go well with the MAC equal shorties I have sitting around.

Should be a nice upgrade from my stock setup.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

You're really limiting yourself with a stock lower. At the very least, pick yourself up an Explorer intake and have Tmoss port that instead. The stock intake (even ported) will sign off long before the heads and cam do.

 

[Cobra912]

be prepared for expensive repair bill if you have to replace all the valves, sometimes it's not worth it to buy used heads, other times you get lucky

 

[old_blue]

Thks for the advice. I already have an extra lower so it seemed cheaper just to send that off. Since the heads aren't anything too radical I thought the cam would work nicely with them.

be prepared for expensive repair bill if you have to replace all the valves, sometimes it's not worth it to buy used heads, other times you get lucky

Not too worried about it. The heads look to be in good condition aside from the one cylinder. Even then, you can see where the water came into it.

 

[jrichker]

Hydro locK? What ever happened to turning the engine over 6 blades by hand before turning on the mags and engaging the starter?





J/K. If you ever worked around radial aircraft engines, that question would have a real life meaning...

 

[old_blue]

jrichker, I haven't worked on aircraft engines as of lately but I am always open for new learning experiences. I have also been to your other websites so I kind of understand what you are referring too as well.

 

[NIKwoaC]

I would say definitely have the heads looked at by a machine shop.

 

[Cobra912]

Thks for the advice. I already have an extra lower so it seemed cheaper just to send that off. Since the heads aren't anything too radical I thought the cam would work nicely with them.

Not too worried about it. The heads look to be in good condition aside from the one cylinder. Even then, you can see where the water came into it.

That may be, but I can tell you from being burnt not once but twice on used heads, just because they "look good" doesn't mean they are good. You may be surprised at what is required to get them back into shape. I almost fell over when I received my bill for new valves and valve spring locks for a set of heads off a "running motor"

 

[Bryan83taco]

I went down that road with GT40 heads. Not worth it man. Save up and find some used (or new) TFS 170's or AFR 165's. They pop up on the classifieds frequently. Lots of heads for sale over at corral classifieds.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/windsor-engine-parts/1369461-trick-flow-twisted-wedge-170cc.html

Check these out. This guy is selling his TFS 170's just because his "engine builder" says he'd be better off with ported GT40P's

And you could probably talk him down more.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I went down that road with GT40 heads. Not worth it man. Save up and find some used (or new) TFS 170's or AFR 165's. They pop up on the classifieds frequently.

Still runs into the same potential problem. Doesn't matter who makes the heads?

 

[Bryan83taco]

Still runs into the same potential problem. Doesn't matter who makes the heads?

Yup, but when it comes down to it I'd rather pay my machine shop to put new valves on a set of higher flowing heads than on a set of plain old GT40's. Why not do it right the first time around?

Just my opinion. There's nothing wrong with GT40's. I just didn't want to swap heads two times on my setup.

 

[old_blue]

I appreciate the comments and opinions. Yes, I know there are bigger and better heads and that goes without saying for pretty much anything we buy. There is always something bigger and better.

I guess I should put out what I expect and what my plans are. I am on a tight budget and any deal I can get on parts I will take. I know by buying used heads they may require a lot of work. In fact, I know that with any used part I run the risk of it not running properly, needing to be rebuilt, or just being complete garbage and having to toss it. Even someone who has "completely rebuilt and gone through" used parts may have just cleaned the part up and put a fresh coat of paint on it to show it being new.

I bought these heads because I got them fairly cheap and they came complete with RR's. Yes I could put a few more hundred dollars into them but I am ok with that seeing how I could buy a set of used AFR's or TF's and still put the same or more into rebuilding those as well. I am just looking for a little more out of my motor as it has 167k on it and nothing too extreme. I planned on a set of gt40 irons but these are a step up from those and, again, are complete without having to buy new springs like I would for the irons. I plan on an entire HCI when I do the swap. Just trying to look at a good combo for the intake and cam. From what I can see the TFS1 will be a good cam for the heads and then maybe a typhoon or gt40 intake as well. This car is a daily driver so I don't want to ruin the drivability of the car as it is. I also have a set of 3.55 gears sitting the garage as well which I believe will give me the package I am looking for.

While I would just love to bolt these heads on, I plan on having these heads gone through to possibly include having them decked and valves checked. I don't plan to put money into the swap with heads that I haven't gone and the possibility of the valves being bent. Around here a valve job for both heads (regardless of brand) is about $150-160. So about $200-$250 in head work and they will be good as new.

 

[old_blue]

Yup, but when it comes down to it I'd rather pay my machine shop to put new valves on a set of higher flowing heads than on a set of plain old GT40's. Why not do it right the first time around?

Just my opinion. There's nothing wrong with GT40's. I just didn't want to swap heads two times on my setup.

While I respect your opinion, I also respectfully disagree.

These are the aluminum version and however minimal it maybe, are a slight step up from the irons, but even so. Irons run anywhere from $175-300 depending on where you are located and if valve springs were swapped or not. I have found used AFR's and Trickflows anywhere from $800-900 obviously depending on which version you are getting. About a $500 difference at best. All things being equal, I will rule out machine shop work because the same could be said for both used heads. Now, for someone like me, that $500 will well cover a intake and a brand new cam and some supporting hardware. I have a wide range of intakes to choose from because the heads are obviously on the low end of the market. If I were to get AFR's of Trickflows I would be looking at more expensive intakes as I don't want to limit the power the heads are capable of.

Just my opinion and I know there are many more like that. This is what works for me and if I had my say, Rick would have my engine at this moment building a stroker. But, until that time comes, I am happy with what I have for now.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Yup, but when it comes down to it I'd rather pay my machine shop to put new valves on a set of higher flowing heads than on a set of plain old GT40's. Why not do it right the first time around?

This has to be the most overused (and unnecessary) statement in the automotive industry. How would replacing a valve(s) in a set of GT40's be any different, or any less "right" than replacing them in any other head? You're going to incur the same cost with either one.

You don't need to pay someone to do it either. You could change a valve yourself on your coffee table at home with basic hand tools.

 

[old_blue]

This has to be the most overused (and unnecessary) statement in the automotive industry. How would replacing a valve(s) in a set of GT40's be any different, or any less "right" than replacing them in any other head? You're going to incur the same cost with either one.

You don't need to pay someone to do it either. You could change a valve yourself on your coffee table at home with basic hand tools.

Agreed and the machine shop isn't really for replacing valves as much as going through them for decking, seals and seats.

 

[Old Skooler]

As others have said have the heads looked at. We're all on a budget but once you go through all the work and install the heads only to find out something's wrong u will be kicking yourself.

I bought used heads and block just recently it ended costing me more to fix the heads only for the car to still not be right. As a result I ripped the motor out of the car bought a set of AFR's and rebuilding the motor. Now im out for the season.. All on credit cards (0% interest ) and every day when I walk past my car I kick myself for not doing it right the first time. Only myself to blame!!!

Good luck, there's some good advise here..

 

[jrichker]

Valve guides need to be checked when any type of valve work is done. Most of us don't have tools (a dial indicator or other tool to measure guide slop on seated valves)) and the necessary experience to spot worn guides. Most good automotive machine shops can knurl the inside of the guide or replace them with better quality and accuracy than the average weekend mechanic.

 

[old_blue]

Good luck, there's some good advise here..

50/50

 

[Old Skooler]

Some gd/some bad...lol

 

[Cobra912]

While I respect your opinion, I also respectfully disagree.

These are the aluminum version and however minimal it maybe, are a slight step up from the irons, but even so. Irons run anywhere from $175-300 depending on where you are located and if valve springs were swapped or not. I have found used AFR's and Trickflows anywhere from $800-900 obviously depending on which version you are getting. About a $500 difference at best. All things being equal, I will rule out machine shop work because the same could be said for both used heads. Now, for someone like me, that $500 will well cover a intake and a brand new cam and some supporting hardware. I have a wide range of intakes to choose from because the heads are obviously on the low end of the market. If I were to get AFR's of Trickflows I would be looking at more expensive intakes as I don't want to limit the power the heads are capable of.

Just my opinion and I know there are many more like that. This is what works for me and if I had my say, Rick would have my engine at this moment building a stroker. But, until that time comes, I am happy with what I have for now.

good to hear