NEW MAF
- Thread starter srtthis
- Start date
You're probably aware of this already, but you know a ported MAF will require a tune, otherwise you'll get a lean condition.
i got lots left to do. i was going through to many sanding drums removing what was left of the tower. so im picking up some carbide bits tonight to finish it and smooth it out the rest of the way. picking up the C&L pipe tonight also
Dude, it's for mad tyte low end torque, yo.
That's why I run a sn95 70mm maf.....and yet I'm still speed density
That's why I run a sn95 70mm maf.....and yet I'm still speed density
Let me guess... You needed a space saver because your CAI didn't come with an SD adapter and you weren't about to drop 60 bones for a useless piece of stepped tubing? I'm there with ya buddy, only I found a custom tubing place online that sold me a 3.5" to 3" stainless steel stepped tube for cheap.
When I'm ready to convert to MAF, I'm going to buy a big-ass 80+mm unit and be done with it. Then that stepped tubing can take its rightful place in my scrap parts drawer.
srtthis, is there any way you can get that thing flow tested when you're done? I'd be curious to see what you end up with. How big did that inner diameter end up to be?
stang&2Birds
Founding Member
Nice job. But, IMHO, it's not the 1990's anymore.
Air flow analysis and MAF design are extremely complicated. About $500+K in software is needed to even think about doing a new MAF design. Then, add another $500K to 1Mil++ to test/verify the design.
It does not matter that you can do a custom map for the modified MAF. Air flow within the MAF will vary greatly depending in air density, air temperature, humidity, etc. That's why the MAF on the left has the edge/ridge to "direct" the air towards the sample tube.
GM has the best MAF design with the sensor smack in the middle of the air flow. The LMAF did a nice job of avoid patent problems by using a tube to the center to capture the center air flow (the "less" turbulent portion within the MAF).
The machined MAF that you show has one of the worse designs possible for a MAF and accuracy.
IMHO, do yourself a huge favor and get the LMAF. It's far more accurate, and at 90mm, there's very little air resistance/flow disruption. At ~$100, other than having to pay money (~$50) for adapters, I don't see any reason for not using an LMAF when someone has the ability to do their own tune.
Here, you can kinda see the evolution in MAF design.
From left to right: Fox(oldest), LMAF(newest), 94/95("2nd gen")
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/tmp/mafs-fox-LMAF-94.jpg
IMHO, as I've said many times, the C&L design has been, and always will be one of the biggest POS and joke "MAFs" every made.
FWIW: I've been doing control system design with sensors "for a while". The first software that I ever used to do air flow analysis was back in the late 80's!
In the end, it's your engine and your choice.
Air flow analysis and MAF design are extremely complicated. About $500+K in software is needed to even think about doing a new MAF design. Then, add another $500K to 1Mil++ to test/verify the design.
It does not matter that you can do a custom map for the modified MAF. Air flow within the MAF will vary greatly depending in air density, air temperature, humidity, etc. That's why the MAF on the left has the edge/ridge to "direct" the air towards the sample tube.
GM has the best MAF design with the sensor smack in the middle of the air flow. The LMAF did a nice job of avoid patent problems by using a tube to the center to capture the center air flow (the "less" turbulent portion within the MAF).
The machined MAF that you show has one of the worse designs possible for a MAF and accuracy.
IMHO, do yourself a huge favor and get the LMAF. It's far more accurate, and at 90mm, there's very little air resistance/flow disruption. At ~$100, other than having to pay money (~$50) for adapters, I don't see any reason for not using an LMAF when someone has the ability to do their own tune.
Here, you can kinda see the evolution in MAF design.
From left to right: Fox(oldest), LMAF(newest), 94/95("2nd gen")
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/tmp/mafs-fox-LMAF-94.jpg
IMHO, as I've said many times, the C&L design has been, and always will be one of the biggest POS and joke "MAFs" every made.
FWIW: I've been doing control system design with sensors "for a while". The first software that I ever used to do air flow analysis was back in the late 80's!
In the end, it's your engine and your choice.
It is a POS, i consider that to be fact not opinion. I've seen so many screwed up C&L cars.
I appreciate the work that went into the meter.
Just not sure i understand why.
I do understand fabricating your own parts can be rewarding, i just don't think the mass air meter is one of those parts to experiment with.
stang&2Birds
Founding Member
What many people don't realize is that running a C&L is like playing the lottery.
Some people win big, a number of people people a little, but most people loose. There are people that do a custom MAF tune with a C&L and their cars run fine. But, there are also people that win megabucks (lottery) and never have to work every again.
There are a ton of factors involved - MAF intake setup, how/when the car is used and run, and so on. Also, add in how fast the 02's respond, how much the ECC can map out rich/lean areas, and it gets very involved very quickly.
Back in the early 90's, for the strip, MAFs where machined out, and either a custom tune, or custom electronics where used. The guy (I forget his name right now, a true legend in EEC circles) that did the first decode and software for custom chips/tunes used to machine his MAF to get better performance at the track. Of course, we're talking about early 90's and a DOS software program.
So, yes. Winning strip car have machined MAFs in the past. However, as I said, that was a while ago, and long before LMAF, EEC-tuner, Tweecr, Moates chip, etc. Or, the very advanced design of the LMAF.
Also, in the past, winning Ford strip cars used to also use a GM MAF with custom electronics to convert from the GM Freq value to the Ford voltage value.
Today, we have the 90MM LMAF which is very accurate. Although, because of it's "scale", I wouldn't suggest using an LMAF on a 120HP max car. Still, for accuracy at the low end, the LMAF has a better low-end scale than the older Fox-era MAF scale.
The engine/control requirements for a strip car are very different than an engine that does real-world accel/decel cycles in traffic. So, a POS C&L MAF that has a custom tune can be more than fine for s trip only application. However, when the engine does an accel/decel cycle, then the O2's are too slow to use. So, the TPS rate of change, the MAF reading, the accel pump values, and dashpot values are all used in a "semi-open loop mode" until the O2's catch up.
So again, things get very involved very quickly when talking MAFs, control systems, and what "works and what doesn't".
Yes, in the past, many things where done to get better performance and an edge. Also, don't forget that we're talking about mainly race-only cars.
Again, I will repeat, that some people run C&Ls and are happy and do not have any problems. But, as an engineer, I don't play "lotto" with my control system designs.
yea its a 94/95...
im not going to flow test it or anything. just doing the same thing i did with my 95 when i had it. remove the tower remove the screw boss on the side of it and smooth out all transitions and smooth out the lip caused by the parting line in the casting. dont think its to much bigger honestly the walls felt kinda thin so i didnt bother to measure them to see what i could take out.
still trying to get ahold of the guy im picking the C&L inlet pipe from so i can get it on the car and see what kinda changes need to be made fuel wise
Can you still buy LMAFs new? How does a LMAF compare to a similar sized Pro-M or one of the new Abaco meters?
A lightning to a pro m is pretty close in performance and driveability.
Where they differ is that the lightning requires a chip to be done for a fox and the pro m is bolt in no chip.
On the other hand a used lightning meter is like $50 and the 95mm pro m is $299
I've seen the abco used recently but i didn't really get too much info at the time. But i will.
not sure about new but you can get them off any 01-04 lightning... and being tied into lightnings as well as i am i do plan to get one soon. just couldnt find one right away and found this cheap.
btw the 99-00 L maf isnt the good Lmaf its only 80mm the 01-04 is the 90mm unit everyone wants.
just took it out for a quick spin to see if it has any issues with idle and all that bs... idles as it should with a B cam and 1.7's has a crisper feel at normal driving havent went WOT yet gunna talk to rick to see where we should go with it tune wise
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