New member seeking advice on estimate for restore...

zeekxxx · Mar 10, 2009

Hi Guy

My mother owns a 66 mustang and wants to get to to showroom quality. She lives in the Florida panhandle. She got the below quote and I want you guys to look it over and tell me if its realistic. I know good work takes good money. Tell me what you think.

Date: 03-06-09 estimate good for 30 days Terms
General shop rate -$70hr

Metal work -$75hr
Admin labor -$40hr
CC Convenience fee- 3%
Disassemble car- bag, tag, & store parts correctly $2,500.00

Media strip car- rotisserie strip car- inside/out and bottom $1,500.00

Metal wrk as seen- will finalize after stripping car

Remove, repair & replace cowl- 25 hrs estimate $1,875.00

Remove, repair & replace frame rails- 40 hrs estimate $3,000.00

Repair floor pans- 30 hrs estimate $2,250.00

Remove, repair rust in quarters- 35 hrs estimate $2,625.00

Parts- metal repair sheet metal- does NOT include freight
cwol repair panels, floorpans, firewall repair panels, quarter
repair, hood- estimate on price $1,956.00

Prep & initial prime car- massage w/ sand take to white metal
rep & prime estimated Labor $1,200.00
estimated Materials $800.00

Paint bottom of car- Ford black color- Labor/ Materials estimate $1,300.00

Paint car- no roof (vinyl) base coat/ clear coat (bodywork included)
Labor & Materials- estimate $8000.00 - $9000.00 $9,000.00

Vinyl roof- parts NOT included

Labor - install vinyl roof estimate- $750.00

Re-assemble car- crank motor- get drivable & safe-
estimated Labor hrs- 200 hrs $14,000.00

Re-assembly- misc parts- wiring, steering column rebuild,
emblems, grille, rechrome work, misc parts for motor, brakes $6,500.00

Interior- new carpet, headliner & seat covers, recover seats
install carpet, etc & assemble
Labor $3,000.00
Parts $2,000.00

Subtotal $54,256.00

enferno · Mar 10, 2009

where are you located?

Az Pete · Mar 10, 2009

Even depending on the body style and specific model, it still seems high. When you are paying for every bit of labor, it does add up quick. Never done one that way so I can only guess. Where in the panhandle are you and what shop? In todays market, you can buy a nice fastback or vert for less than that repair bill....

phutch11 · Mar 10, 2009

Without seeing the shape the car's in today, its hard to say, but my gut reaction is that its way over priced IMHO. The metal parts aren't nealry that expensive and 8-9K for paint is way too much for a simple resto.

That kind of money should get you a paint job equivalent to anything seen at Barret Jackson.

Shop around, times are tough - you should be able to get a quality, showroom resto for 25-30k max.

Good luck...

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CraigMBA · Mar 10, 2009

I'm kind of in the business of automotive repair. That quote is reasonable. I don't know if the shop is any good, but they certainly know how to appropriately quote a job.

Here is my expenditures to get a fairly rust free CA car to paint:

Parts - $2100
Bodyman labor - $5000
Prep Labor - $500
Paint Labor (so far, undercarrage and jambs) - $1300
Paint materials - $2400

It's going to cost me another $2500 in labor to the painter to spray the rest of it. I am friends with the shop owner, and his regular guys did my car as a side job (as a favor to me) when they had time. If it had went through the front door the price would of been double or triple. The discount wasn't free - it's taken me 4 years and I'm not done yet.

You figured out the dirty secret of vintage automobiles - it costs the same to restore a Mustang as it does a Dusenberg. The difference is the Mustang is worth $30K when you get done, and the Dusenberg is worth $2 million.

zeekxxx · Mar 10, 2009

Thanks

The car is located in Pensacola Fl. I'll see if she can shoot some pics and post them here. I don't want to name the shop cause I know google will pick up the name rather easily and if someone trash talks them I don't want it to stick. Anyhow it did seem high when you think you can buy a very nice restored car under that price in todays market.

Id like some more opinions if you guys have time.

Ron

65ShelbyClone · Mar 10, 2009

I don't know what kind of body rot the average Florida Mustang has has after 42 years, but that car needs $12,000 worth of floors, cowl, and frame repair. Wow!

If it's not a convertible or a k-code GT or something a little bit special, the gap between the cost of restoration and resale value is going to be wide. However, if sentimental value outweighs resale value, then it probably will cost the estimated $50,000+ to have the current Mustang completely restored.

To anyone that says parts aren't as expensive as what's in the quote, you're right, but since when did shops start selling parts at cost? They are going to mark up everything they have to buy for the job.

Calponycarsmike · Mar 10, 2009

It needs to be a Shelby or K Code car because $50K plus for a resto on a T code coupe would be insane. You should check with Florida Mustang.

10secgoal · Mar 10, 2009

For SHOW quality the paint seems low to me personally. 50k isn't unreasonable either way. It take time and lots of parts. I am 99% sure though charging credit cards like that is illegal. Which believe me sucks ass. We spent 6k on that stupid machine last year. It's a rip.

It's always cheaper to buy a car done that to have one built, that's for sure.

zookeeper · Mar 10, 2009

That's the unfortunate truth of car restoration. There are a lot of parts in any car, even something as simple as an early Mustang. That's why most people either buy a finished car, or do the work themselves, usually over a period of months or even years. The shop rate seems reasonable and the cost of parts is about right. She either needs to lower her standards, since a true "showroom restoration" is generally reserved for high-optioned or rare cars that are usually never driven again. You may want to educate her and tell her that nearly all vintage Mustangs are what's known as "driver quality". That means a good-quality paint job (not show quality), interior restoration and maybe an engine rebuild and give the mechanicals a freshing up, but not a detailing. I have a freind that sank $42,000 into a fairly basic '67 coupe before he realized it. Now it either sits in the garage or rides in a trailer, which is often the fate of high-dollar cars.

SadbutTrue · Mar 10, 2009

zeekxxx said:
Subtotal $54,256.00

edit: Not that I necessarily doubt that figure too much, but I don't think any 66 Mustang unless its some ridiculously rare, unique car will go for that much. Pretty sure even resto'd 66 GT350s come in under that (could be wrong though).

Good luck either way...

Hack · Mar 10, 2009

Makes the $15 or 16k for the Dynacorn bodies seem cheap. I agree that it makes more sense to buy one that's finished, but I know what it's like when a car is special to you and sense isn't the first priority.

SadbutTrue · Mar 10, 2009

Hack said:
Makes the $15 or 16k for the Dynacorn bodies seem cheap. I agree that it makes more sense to buy one that's finished, but I know what it's like when a car is special to you and sense isn't the first priority.

True story, I dropped $10k in goodies on my 66 (not counting dad spending 4k to buy it and 4k to restore it) and thats probably more or close to what its worth.

And that was before I graduated college and got a real job (have spent a few grand since too). My tax returns tell me my total income while I spent that $10k was only about $15k (pre-taxes, but at that income rate I didnt lose anythign to taxes)... part of me wishes I hadn't just done that calculation...

wicked93gs · Mar 10, 2009

honestly, its extremely expensive...but its a reasonable price when you pay other people to do it with a show quality restoration....it sounds like a full frame-off restoration quote and nothing on the list is unreasonable cost for a shop to do, but it does make me wonder why people even do a resoration if they dont do the work themselves(or most of it)

BarnStang · Mar 10, 2009

We need to know what the car really is. THe other point missing is the geographic market. THat estimate may be par for the course in that location. Although I think it's high myself. If the OP thinks it's high (or the owner of the car) then they need to take the car to two other shops and get an idea of the average cost of the job.
We all generally get our parts from the same place. THe sheetmetal estimate is too high. It's a pretty steep markup. I now what they are paying for their sheet metal within 10%.
THe hours quoted for the work I think is excessive.
Remove, repair & replace cowl- 25 hrs estimate $1,875.00
THis is reasonable if you are cutting and patching the hats sepreatly like I did to my car, with the one piece cowls you can get, it can be done in a day.

Remove, repair & replace frame rails- 40 hrs estimate $3,000.00
THis depends on what they are quoting as frame rails. If this refers to the floor supports (what everyone calls frame rails) under the left & right front floor pans, this is outrageous. If they are quoting replacing the rear frame rails torque boxes to tail lights, its a fantastic deal.

Repair floor pans- 30 hrs estimate $2,250.00
THis is too much, I don't care who you are. Thats more than THREE AND A HALF DAYS. All day Monday, all day Tuesday, All day Wednesday, and finishing with seam sealer after lunch on THursday. No way. Remember the work week is 40 billable hours.

Remove, repair rust in quarters- 35 hrs estimate $2,625.00
This seems reasonable. It does not say replace qtr panels. If they are cutting & fitting lower qtr patches, they are most likely including the wheel well corners that need rebuilt too. I try to patch the qtr panel if I can. But this patch job can be problematic. 35 hrs for both sides, wheel well corners, and tieing the trunk drop in, it's enough.

Note that I looked at the TIME they estimated. The labor rate is going to be what the market will bear. THe total cost of the restoration will of course be less in a shop with a lower labor rate.
It's not always about the cost, what do you get? Does this shop offer referrals of their customers so you can see their work? THere is a restoration shop within less than a days drive of our shop. We have re-repaired three cars from that shop. And I mean metal repair to a freshly painted car. And starting over.
And once we know what the car is, it may not matter. If it's a 6 cyl auto coupe, than we all know what that's worth as a collector car, but if there is an emotional attachment, can tell you all that the cost does not matter. We have restored car that we have tried to disuade people from restoring. But, the customer is always right. We even restored my Dad's Model T after I CLEARLY told him that he would have way more in the car than it was worth. But, he was thrilled with it. (The one on the website is my dad's car!)
So, don't make any hasty decisions. Shop around, check the work, make sure you are comfortable with how you relate to the techs.

BubbaB1966 · Mar 10, 2009

Zeek, do yourself a favor, there is a huge Mustang show on the 20th, 21st, and 22nd at the Pensacola Fair Grounds. Go and see the show cars there, as well as the cars for sale and get an idea of what you would do. This is the reason I am undertaking my own body work, very slowly mind you, it's very expensive. I live in Fort Walton Beach, 60 miles east, and the prices are pretty much right on for the area.

ForceFed70 · Mar 10, 2009

There is no line for re-assembly that I can see.

If you are paying $54,000 for paint/body work only. Then It seems too high to me.
If it's a complete resto (which it sounds like), then it's probably a decent deal.

I'd clarify that part.

zeekxxx · Mar 12, 2009

Thx

BarnStang said:
We need to know what the car really is. THe other point missing is the geographic market. THat estimate may be par for the course in that location. Although I think it's high myself. If the OP thinks it's high (or the owner of the car) then they need to take the car to two other shops and get an idea of the average cost of the job.
We all generally get our parts from the same place. THe sheetmetal estimate is too high. It's a pretty steep markup. I now what they are paying for their sheet metal within 10%.
THe hours quoted for the work I think is excessive.
Remove, repair & replace cowl- 25 hrs estimate $1,875.00
THis is reasonable if you are cutting and patching the hats sepreatly like I did to my car, with the one piece cowls you can get, it can be done in a day.

Remove, repair & replace frame rails- 40 hrs estimate $3,000.00
THis depends on what they are quoting as frame rails. If this refers to the floor supports (what everyone calls frame rails) under the left & right front floor pans, this is outrageous. If they are quoting replacing the rear frame rails torque boxes to tail lights, its a fantastic deal.

Repair floor pans- 30 hrs estimate $2,250.00
THis is too much, I don't care who you are. Thats more than THREE AND A HALF DAYS. All day Monday, all day Tuesday, All day Wednesday, and finishing with seam sealer after lunch on THursday. No way. Remember the work week is 40 billable hours.

Remove, repair rust in quarters- 35 hrs estimate $2,625.00
This seems reasonable. It does not say replace qtr panels. If they are cutting & fitting lower qtr patches, they are most likely including the wheel well corners that need rebuilt too. I try to patch the qtr panel if I can. But this patch job can be problematic. 35 hrs for both sides, wheel well corners, and tieing the trunk drop in, it's enough.

Note that I looked at the TIME they estimated. The labor rate is going to be what the market will bear. THe total cost of the restoration will of course be less in a shop with a lower labor rate.
It's not always about the cost, what do you get? Does this shop offer referrals of their customers so you can see their work? THere is a restoration shop within less than a days drive of our shop. We have re-repaired three cars from that shop. And I mean metal repair to a freshly painted car. And starting over.
And once we know what the car is, it may not matter. If it's a 6 cyl auto coupe, than we all know what that's worth as a collector car, but if there is an emotional attachment, can tell you all that the cost does not matter. We have restored car that we have tried to disuade people from restoring. But, the customer is always right. We even restored my Dad's Model T after I CLEARLY told him that he would have way more in the car than it was worth. But, he was thrilled with it. (The one on the website is my dad's car!)
So, don't make any hasty decisions. Shop around, check the work, make sure you are comfortable with how you relate to the techs.

p
p
p
p
p

Thx for all your super detailed comments. I will pass the word on. Its a 66 mustang hardtop with a 289 I think. I just needed a feel of what the going rates were. I am 38 now and that car brought me home from the hospital in 1971. The emotional aspect is there for her I know that - being she bought it new when she was 18ish. I am assuming she will look around before choosing but thx for your inputs. This is really great that everyone took so much time to respond. thx

NasaGT · Mar 12, 2009

ForceFed70 said:
There is no line for re-assembly that I can see.

4th paragraph from the bottom of the original post: $14000

Kman · Mar 12, 2009

To my "old timers" mind a lot of the costs you received do seem over board to me. $9,000 to spray a car that is already 100% prepped (a vinyl top car at that) just seems nuts. Does the car need to be freshened up mechanically? If yes, that would make this a 60k restoration. Wow!

New member seeking advice on estimate for restore...

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