New to manual drum brakes

[StangDaddy66]

Hi everyone. My 66 has manual drums with all new hardware including the master cylinder. Having never driven a car with manual drum brakes, I don't know what they should feel like when they are setup properly. I know they do not perform like a car with vacuum assisted front disc brakes, but should I have to give them a preliminary pump to get them to tighten up as I stop? I have bled all four all the way around and bench bled the master in the car using a tip I found on these forums.

 

[2+2GT]

I know they do not perform like a car with vacuum assisted front disc brakes, but should I have to give them a preliminary pump to get them to tighten up as I stop?

In a car with properly assembled, bled, and adjusted manual drum brakes, the pedal should be high and hard.

 

[6Stang7]

If you have never driven a car with manual drums before, I suggest taking it slow at first to get adjusted to them; when 2+2GT says hard, he's not joking.

 

[rbohm]

the pedal effort will be much higher than with power brakes, and your legs will get a workout using the brake pedal. and it is a very good idea to take your time getting used to the required effort. also be aware that if you have the fruit jar master cylinder, your brakes will pull to the right slightly even if the brakes are properly adjusted, so be ready for that so you dont over correct.

something else to be aware of is that you will have to adjust the brakes more often. you will learn the signs that the brakes need adjusting as the pedal will remain firm, but the travel will be longer.

 

[StangDaddy66]

Thanks for the info guys. That is exactly what I was looking for. The pedal pressure is hard, but there is a lot of action before the brakes acutally start to push back. I am guessing I don't have them adjusted out enough and that the pedal play is due to the shoe travel? I installed new automatic adjuster hardware on the front brakes today. Those were missing on all four wheels and is still missing on the rear. I guess that is part of the fun of buying a shell! After five years with this one, I am still discovering stuff that is missing.

 

[zookeeper]

My car had non-power drums when I bought it and they actually worked very well, with a very light pedal. Drums are self-enegergizing, which is a fancy way of saying that they don't need a high pedal effort, since the shoes actually wedge themselves into the drum for kind of a mechanical advantage. The only real drawback of drums (in mild street driving) is the fact that they tend to "steer" the car on way or the other during hard stops. Other than that, they work pretty well.

 

[2+2GT]

The pedal pressure is hard, but there is a lot of action before the brakes acutally start to push back. I am guessing I don't have them adjusted out enough and that the pedal play is due to the shoe travel? I installed new automatic adjuster hardware on the front brakes today.

Spin each wheel, tightening the adjuster. When it becomes difficult to turn the wheel, back off until the drag is barely perceptible. Do this for all four wheels, and a low pedal will not be a problem. Do not depend on the self adjusters.

 

[StangDaddy66]

Spin each wheel, tightening the adjuster. When it becomes difficult to turn the wheel, back off until the drag is barely perceptible. Do this for all four wheels, and a low pedal will not be a problem. Do not depend on the self adjusters.

Will do. It may be a few days before I can get to it (unless I get a good bout of insomnia), but I will post back with results.

 

[StangDaddy66]

Also, should I bother getting auto adjusters for the rear?

 

[6Stang7]

also be aware that if you have the fruit jar master cylinder, your brakes will pull to the right slightly even if the brakes are properly adjusted, so be ready for that so you dont over correct.

O wow, I never knew that. Is this partly dew to bump steering, or can it be caused by just having the fruit jar?

 

[rebel65]

one of the other disadvantages for drum brakes is when it rains... avoid puddles!!!
unless you don't want to stop. when i had drums the PO never changed the pads/shoes for a few years i knew it was squeaking on teh drive home, but when i tried to get the drums off :| lol. they had been on metal to metal for thousands of miles heh. new drums pls :|. i would say in the future look into a disc brake upgrade for the front at least. unless your stang will never see a puddle.

 

[StangDaddy66]

also be aware that if you have the fruit jar master cylinder, your brakes will pull to the right slightly even if the brakes are properly adjusted

That reminds me of a friend from college with a 66 inline 6 that spent no telling how much time at brake shops trying to get rid of that pull. No one ever found anything wrong. I reckon that explains it!

 

[2+2GT]

Also, should I bother getting auto adjusters for the rear?

Oh yeah.

 

[StangDaddy66]

one of the other disadvantages for drum brakes is when it rains... avoid puddles!!!
unless you don't want to stop. when i had drums the PO never changed the pads/shoes for a few years i knew it was squeaking on teh drive home, but when i tried to get the drums off :| lol. they had been on metal to metal for thousands of miles heh. new drums pls :|. i would say in the future look into a disc brake upgrade for the front at least. unless your stang will never see a puddle.

I do drive this one a bunch, but a steering rebuild is on deck. I am definitely looking into brake upgrades but I need to narrow down my choices So much to choose from! Plus, budget is a big factor.

 

[6Stang7]

If you want to put disks in the front, you can keep an eye open for the spindles and calipers off of a 70-73 mustang. All that is required is changing the tie rod ends, master cylinder, and adding a bias valve. I think I spent around $300 to do everything.

 

[rebel65]

yes i figured as everyone has a budget wether it is higher than others or not. whatever brake upgrade you get none of them are bad. even a granada swap is still good brakes and in most situations the cheapest, if you go junk yard or pre made kit you can't go wrong.

 

[StangDaddy66]

If you want to put disks in the front, you can keep an eye open for the spindles and calipers off of a 70-73 mustang. All that is required is changing the tie rod ends, master cylinder, and adding a bias valve. I think I spent around $300 to do everything.

That sounds like a pretty good option.

 

[6Stang7]

I should point out that it all depends on the find. I got mine off of a 72 coupe that was hit with a molotov cocktail after a "dispute" with his neighbor. The guy was parting the car out to cut his loss. Just keep your eyes peeled.

 

[RGS0907]

one of the other disadvantages for drum brakes is when it rains... avoid puddles!!!
unless you don't want to stop. when i had drums the PO never changed the pads/shoes for a few years i knew it was squeaking on teh drive home, but when i tried to get the drums off :| lol. they had been on metal to metal for thousands of miles heh. new drums pls :|. i would say in the future look into a disc brake upgrade for the front at least. unless your stang will never see a puddle.

I'll second that! If you go though a puddle - immediately apply light pressure on the brake pedal for a few seconds to dry them off, otherwise you will be in for a big surprise when you really need them.

 

[rbohm]

O wow, I never knew that. Is this partly dew to bump steering, or can it be caused by just having the fruit jar?

it is due to the fruit jar master cylinder system itself.

one of the other disadvantages for drum brakes is when it rains... avoid puddles!!!
unless you don't want to stop. when i had drums the PO never changed the pads/shoes for a few years i knew it was squeaking on teh drive home, but when i tried to get the drums off :| lol. they had been on metal to metal for thousands of miles heh. new drums pls :|. i would say in the future look into a disc brake upgrade for the front at least. unless your stang will never see a puddle.

another good point to remember. although i have had few problems with wet drum brakes, it does have a negative affect.

That reminds me of a friend from college with a 66 inline 6 that spent no telling how much time at brake shops trying to get rid of that pull. No one ever found anything wrong. I reckon that explains it!

when i swapped to a dual master cylinder in my 64 falcon, the pulling went away completely, and it still has four wheel drum brakes for now.

as for a disc brake upgrade, you have plenty of options. the factory style four piston disc brakes are available from a number of sources, and if you have 5 bolt wheels you dont have to change spindles. or you can check out scarebird for their disc brake conversions. they use later model parts which are easier to get from the average parts store. the best initial upgrade you can do though is to swap to a dual master cylinder from a 67 mustang. you just need a few short bits of premade brake line, one plug, and a few misc. brass fittings to connect everything up. if you stay with the drum brakes you dont even need a proportioning valve.