89ripper
Founding Member
Like the attention to detail you have. It will pay off in the end. Something I wish I wouldve done as a teen!
Progress Thread Nicholase "lights out" build- TKX install
- Thread starter nicholase
- Start date
Thanks. I got alot of practice on a 53 F100 Coyote auto cross build a while back. That was like designing and fabricating a vehicle from scratch in my garage. Must have went through 300 lbs of welding wire. Maybe more lol.
Yeah, I was terrible at that when I was a teen. Always rushing and sometimes causing more problems than I fixed!
My Dad used to tell me to " read the instructions " when I was young... LOL.. Who has time for that.... He was right...
Now I do it just to find the mistakes they made. Helps me to understand how good the product might be.
Fired right up and idled like a champ with the new calibrated MAF and 24lb Bosch injectors. I set the FP regulator and checked for any leaks. All is well
I took it for a "no boost" easy ride around the neighborhood and watched the AFR guage. Everything looks fine. Went and grabbed some gas. Hit the highway. Stopped for lunch. It behaves just like did before. Runs like a top. I can't find any drivability issues anywhere no matter how hard I try. Low RPM parking lot maneuvers are great, high RPM tip in, low RPM tip in, it runs perfect. Even lugging it low speed in 5th and accelerating it reacts well. Cold and hot restarts are just like before. So success.
It actually seems to run better than it did before. Probably because of the new injectors.
I sort of want to flow test the original 19lb injectors just out of curiosity. The OCD is kickin.
I do notice the blower sounds louder. Even just driving around without getting into boost. Probably because of the bigger MAF and filter. It's like a megaphone out in front of those straight cut gears. Sounds pretty mean.
Headed out to try some boost and swap some disc's. Got my tuning kit on the front seat
I took it for a "no boost" easy ride around the neighborhood and watched the AFR guage. Everything looks fine. Went and grabbed some gas. Hit the highway. Stopped for lunch. It behaves just like did before. Runs like a top. I can't find any drivability issues anywhere no matter how hard I try. Low RPM parking lot maneuvers are great, high RPM tip in, low RPM tip in, it runs perfect. Even lugging it low speed in 5th and accelerating it reacts well. Cold and hot restarts are just like before. So success.
It actually seems to run better than it did before. Probably because of the new injectors.
I sort of want to flow test the original 19lb injectors just out of curiosity. The OCD is kickin.
I do notice the blower sounds louder. Even just driving around without getting into boost. Probably because of the bigger MAF and filter. It's like a megaphone out in front of those straight cut gears. Sounds pretty mean.
Headed out to try some boost and swap some disc's. Got my tuning kit on the front seat
The boosted ride went perfect. I'm not noticing any oddities using the calibrated MAF under boost either.
I adjusted the MSD BTM timing retard higher than usual before I left- more on that at the end the next post. Also I lowered the rev limiter on the MSD from 6200 to 6000. These were the old numbers with a 6200 rev limiter.
6 rib - 6" crank / 3.31 charger = 4.5 psi
8 rib - 6.87" crank / 3.31 charger power pipe = 6.5 psi
8 rib - 6.87" crank / 3.12 charger power pipe= 8.5 psi
Then after adding the calibrated Pro M MAF and 24lb Bosch injectors = 9.8 psi
So I picked up 1.3 psi at 200 less rpm. Probably call it an even 10 psi at 6250. So it seems the factory MAF was causing a bit of a restriction.
I'm also seeing a reduction of fuel pressure like I wanted. So over all the calibrated MAF & 24lb injectors accomplished what I wanted.
I adjusted the MSD BTM timing retard higher than usual before I left- more on that at the end the next post. Also I lowered the rev limiter on the MSD from 6200 to 6000. These were the old numbers with a 6200 rev limiter.
6 rib - 6" crank / 3.31 charger = 4.5 psi
8 rib - 6.87" crank / 3.31 charger power pipe = 6.5 psi
8 rib - 6.87" crank / 3.12 charger power pipe= 8.5 psi
Then after adding the calibrated Pro M MAF and 24lb Bosch injectors = 9.8 psi
So I picked up 1.3 psi at 200 less rpm. Probably call it an even 10 psi at 6250. So it seems the factory MAF was causing a bit of a restriction.
I'm also seeing a reduction of fuel pressure like I wanted. So over all the calibrated MAF & 24lb injectors accomplished what I wanted.
I've done a bunch of reading and research about the calibrated MAF's and results seem varied. As we know the calibrated MAF reduces the voltage sent to the EEC. Which looks like less air flow to the EEC than what is actually flowing. Because it sees less air it wants to delivers less fuel. So it shortens the injector pulse width to deliver less fuel. That way the bigger injectors are open less time and your not super rich allover the place. The farther you get from the factory 19's the greater this "lie" has to be. And that can create issues with unwanted ignition timing changes due to bad load calculation and problems in situation like start up when the EEC doesn't use input from the MAF or O² sensors. So the bigger the injector the richer it is going to be at start up.
This guy has a video that covers the changes a calibrated MAF introduces. He discusses in great detail and shows what it does to your tune exactly. I suggest watching the whole thing a few times if you were thinking about doing something like this.
At 10:50 he transition from the drawbacks of the 42lb cal MAF and gets into the 24lb cal MAF. This is why I went with that size and don't feel going any higher is a good plan. He even showed what changes to expect in ignition timing, so I'm using the data he provided to set my old school MSD timing retard box. It's a super helpful video.
I can say that my 24lb calibrated MAF works surprisingly excellent. But for results like this I belive three things have to happen.
1) The car needs to be running perfectly and well maintained before hand.
2) The MAF needs to be calibrated for your exact setup from the manufacturer.
3) The injectors that you use with it have to be flowing evenly and exactly what the meter expects.
Up next is some fine tuning with the FMU. I've got some interesting ideas for it.
This guy has a video that covers the changes a calibrated MAF introduces. He discusses in great detail and shows what it does to your tune exactly. I suggest watching the whole thing a few times if you were thinking about doing something like this.
At 10:50 he transition from the drawbacks of the 42lb cal MAF and gets into the 24lb cal MAF. This is why I went with that size and don't feel going any higher is a good plan. He even showed what changes to expect in ignition timing, so I'm using the data he provided to set my old school MSD timing retard box. It's a super helpful video.
I can say that my 24lb calibrated MAF works surprisingly excellent. But for results like this I belive three things have to happen.
1) The car needs to be running perfectly and well maintained before hand.
2) The MAF needs to be calibrated for your exact setup from the manufacturer.
3) The injectors that you use with it have to be flowing evenly and exactly what the meter expects.
Up next is some fine tuning with the FMU. I've got some interesting ideas for it.
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Looks awesome! Glad it's running great too. I'm going to probably upgrade to 24lb injectors, 70-75mm throttle body and a calibrated MAF. This should work well with ported heads/intake.
That's a good video. I've explained this many times and very recently. It's nice to see the table to help illustrate the reduced voltage scale and loss of meter resolution when running just a "tuned" meter, large injectors, and stock tune.
A digital tune.
This allows the EEC to use the [entire] 5 Volt scale and not just the bottom of the scale when compensating for a larger injector.
Full use of the scale equals more data increments between 0 and 5 volts equals maximum resolution from your high dollar MAF.
That or a chip like an SCT. You will need to find a dealer and hopefully they dyno tune. Typically $500-$700 for the chip and dyno tune. Retunes will vary as it will depend on how much dyno time is required.
If you go this route just get a 70mm MAF from a 1991-1995 Thunderbird SC 3.8L. Get the MAF sensor and housing. This will bolt in and you can stretch the factory tubing over the openings. A good tuner will have or can get the mass transfer function for this MAF.
Then have the tuner adjust for the larger injectors and you are done.
A cheap throttle body is a 65mm off of an Explorer but you will have to modify the throttle linkage which has been done and documented here.
Save money on the parts and put it towards the tune.
If you go this route just get a 70mm MAF from a 1991-1995 Thunderbird SC 3.8L. Get the MAF sensor and housing. This will bolt in and you can stretch the factory tubing over the openings. A good tuner will have or can get the mass transfer function for this MAF.
Then have the tuner adjust for the larger injectors and you are done.
A cheap throttle body is a 65mm off of an Explorer but you will have to modify the throttle linkage which has been done and documented here.
Save money on the parts and put it towards the tune.
... And I cannot say enough about the 90mm Lightning mass air meters for mild builds. I say "mild" but by that I mean 450-500 Crank HP.
If the tune is part of the plan anyway, save yourself a [ton] of money and get a high resolution, OEM, Lightning MAF to go with the tune for under $150.
The only time you'd ever have to upgrade is if you needed a [blow through] setup. LMAF is not good for that scenario.
So, save some money on the MAF and put it towards a stand-alone ECU.
www.jlpracing.com
If the tune is part of the plan anyway, save yourself a [ton] of money and get a high resolution, OEM, Lightning MAF to go with the tune for under $150.
The only time you'd ever have to upgrade is if you needed a [blow through] setup. LMAF is not good for that scenario.
So, save some money on the MAF and put it towards a stand-alone ECU.
90MM Lightning Mass Air Meter
www.jlpracing.com
I’m at 470ish fwhp on an 80mm MAF with room to go. I use a 2000 GT unit and got it for $35.
Thing with the SN95 and lightning MAF’s is you need an adapter for the flanged end of the MAF to get them to be able to utilize larger tubing whether that is metal tubing with couplers and elbows or formed silicone tube. You will also need the six pin connector for these MAaF’s. You will remove the outer two wires and then wire the other four back into the Fox harness. You can dot this or use an adapter. I just hard wired it in as I will never go back.
Here is my setup. This is with a BBK 70mm TB. All 3.5” metal tube with silicone couplers and a 3.5” to 3” 60 deg elbow to go from the tube to the TB.
Thing with the SN95 and lightning MAF’s is you need an adapter for the flanged end of the MAF to get them to be able to utilize larger tubing whether that is metal tubing with couplers and elbows or formed silicone tube. You will also need the six pin connector for these MAaF’s. You will remove the outer two wires and then wire the other four back into the Fox harness. You can dot this or use an adapter. I just hard wired it in as I will never go back.
Here is my setup. This is with a BBK 70mm TB. All 3.5” metal tube with silicone couplers and a 3.5” to 3” 60 deg elbow to go from the tube to the TB.
I remember the days of putting in a mild cam, heads, intake, 70mm TB, 24lb injectors, calibrated MAF and calling it a day. What more does a tune get you ? Is it necessary? I'm just curious since Ive been out of the fox game for 20 years.I’m at 470ish fwhp on an 80mm MAF with room to go. I use a 2000 GT unit and got it for $35.
Thing with the SN95 and lightning MAF’s is you need an adapter for the flanged end of the MAF to get them to be able to utilize larger tubing whether that is metal tubing with couplers and elbows or formed silicone tube. You will also need the six pin connector for these MAaF’s. You will remove the outer two wires and then wire the other four back into the Fox harness. You can dot this or use an adapter. I just hard wired it in as I will never go back.
Here is my setup. This is with a BBK 70mm TB. All 3.5” metal tube with silicone couplers and a 3.5” to 3” 60 deg elbow to go from the tube to the TB.
For me it all depends on camshaft profile and if you decide to go more cubic inches. You are dealing with a 30+ year old computer that while was pretty good then is light years behind what we have now. The chip allows a tuner to modify the tune rather than trick it like a “calibrated” MAF.
Once you get past 30 lb/hr injectors with a calibrated MAF there is a definite difference.
My car is a Frankenstein of parts so it is the only way it will run with the stock A9L. I’m switching to an aftermarket processor at some point as even my tuner told me he could do more with it due to what all the motor in my car has going on. If you add a blower or turbo I have always heard a custom tune will get more performance out of the combo.
You also get into drivability issues the more outside the stock parameters you get so idle and off idle can suffer.
Once you get past 30 lb/hr injectors with a calibrated MAF there is a definite difference.
My car is a Frankenstein of parts so it is the only way it will run with the stock A9L. I’m switching to an aftermarket processor at some point as even my tuner told me he could do more with it due to what all the motor in my car has going on. If you add a blower or turbo I have always heard a custom tune will get more performance out of the combo.
You also get into drivability issues the more outside the stock parameters you get so idle and off idle can suffer.
